KingSurf caught maphacking?

As MYM just announced, Kingsurf was cleared from all maphack accusations:

“

The verdict is changed into "Innocent until proven guilty" - we cannot say anymore with 100% certainty that the players in question have maphacked. We can only raise suspicions. It is in our duty to apologise to the team and the players. - MYM|Army

The full article can be seen at the MYM Page

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Full story

Meetyourmakers has just announced that the DotA team

KingSurf was caught maphacking. The initial post was written by Bogdan "MYM|Snake" Barbu, Alex "MYM|S1rro" S. and Markus "MYM|Army" Stefanko. A link to the original post can be found at the bottom of the article together with a link to download the replay.

Apparently

OnePiece (1P) asked the MYM admins to check the replay from their match against KingSurf. After consulting several people and debating if there was enough proof to ban KingSurf from MYM.Pride they have decided that there is. Therefor KingSurf is now banned from MYM.Pride.

GosuGamers went further and caught up with some people from the DotA community to give us their view on the total situation. First up some questions asked to a MYM.Pride admin.

Bogdan "MYM|Snake" Barbu
MYM.Pride Admin

When did the MYM Team start looking for proof that Ks was actually maphacking?
1P the greek team they played against discovered a few things and informed us, this lead to a big investigation, and analysing of the reply.

All the proof so far was graphically, has anyone ran a parser and will we see more proof come via that way aswell?
Yes ofcourse, we ran multiple tests, we only showed here what we were able to show in a news page. I assure u that the replay was analysed by anti cheat client programs, who confirmed our doubts.

Some people have replied that the proof isn't very solid. For example Drayich and Maelk showed this in their comments on the MYM website. What do you think of that?
With all due respect I think that dray and maelk are just dota players, not hacking specialists, and they should trust our judgement, considering we have talked with specialists in the mather.

How will this reflect on MYM.Nations seeing Ks is a team from Malaysia and Malaysia is in MYM.Nations?
Well ofcourse they are not allowed to play for the Malaysian team, the team leader will have to find subs.
(Gosugamers: Since the Malaysian captain is someone from Ks, a new captain will be elected and all Ks players are banned to play for their country.)

In the comments we could see two players raising their eyebrows over the accusation. We met up with them aswel.

Kim "Mouz|Drayich" Larsson
Player for Mousesports
I saw you criticised the maphack accusation towards Ks earlier, any particular reason?
No, it's just so close to the fog, it's hard to see.

Jacob "MYM|Maelk" Toft-Andersen
Player for MeetyourMakers
You said in the comments, alongside with Drayich, that the proof is not really convincing, do you have any extra-knowledge about this case which led you to this conclusion?
I had the chance to go through the replays a few days before this was all announced. Everything but the Spectre-situation at 40:14(?) was clean and the Spectre-case could be explained with several things such as the vision they had of him a second before he is marked, clicking rapidly on the fog, a simple bug and so forth. I recommended that they didn't go live with the little 'evidence' they had as both my team and I found it way too vague. Apparently my word wasn't good enough for them.

As the leader of MYM.DotA, you surely had the opportunity to face Ks, did you or any of your team ever get suspicious on Ks?
Not once, no. We've played them in several games now and watched a few replays of theirs, too, and not once have we felt been even the sligthest suspicious. To be honest, I wonder what even made 1P question them.

Since the release and the introduction of DotAclient, maphacking became a way more adressed issue in competetive gaming, do you think that incidents like TeG and the unconfirmed case of Ks are cases of only a few players or the top of the iceberg?
Not sure to be honest. I haven't really had any experience with the client and even though I suspect that several semi-high profiled players are maphacking - Not going into details - I don't think this will catch them nor make them stop. New ways will simply be invented.
(Gosugamers: Interview done by GG-Amock)

We also caught up with from OnePiece (1P).

Chris Anastasios "Boter" Kostouros
Manager for 1P
How long after the match did you actually have the feeling something was wrong about that match?
Basically, at the time that 1p vs Ks played , I was out of town, thats why I couldn't see the match that time. I just saw it from the replay when they informed me that they lost.
No, I didn't have that feeling, never imagined something like this. I just noticed it when viewing the replay.
I noticed that something was wrong after I saw in the replay a red circle around spectre, then the suspicion came. This was the day before yesterday.

The next thing you did is go to the MYM Admins. How did that work out?
No, the next thing was to check the replays, again and again ,couple of hours, call my team here, discuss the thing, look at it more, make material ready, and then discuss it with the admins. Then I spoke to MYM|Snake telling him that I think something is wrong here and I would like their advice. They were open to me all time and they worked a lot on this. I think they came to the right decision and I also think ks maphacked.

What should happen to Ks in your opinion? Should the entire team indeed get banned as MYM did or are there some players that should not be banned?
Couple of years ago, Freezer and Kanga maphacked and the entire team got banned, why would the same happen to Ks? Isn't it obvious that this will be unfair for TEG if the entire team won't get banned? From our material that we did, I totally believe lina-atropos-mirana had maphack, I cannot say about the other 2.

Do you believe that somewhere down the line the ban should go away and if so would a confession help from a person that is caught to get unbanned? Basicly them saying when they maphacked?
Yes I do.We are people and it's natural for us to make mistakes, but right now the rules are rules and ks maphacked.

Official statement of KingSurf
All of this information was received via a private conversation between GG-Domi and Xiagui via MSN. The english is cleaned up as Xiagui's english is not that good
I didn't play that match. However I know that our players played in the netcafé. We always have people watching us when we play and it's also broadcasted on a big screen.
When asked if they tried to talk with MYM
We talked with them, but they don't listen. I don't know why MYM does this to us.
They also say that the replay is completely different and that the red circles are not there when you watch the replay with a Warcraft 1.21 client instead of a 1.21b. This will certainly be looked into by MYM.

It's clear that KingSurf will not be giving a statement that they were indeed maphacking. More people will look into the replay to see if Ks was indeed maphacking.

However were they? GosuGamers met up with Naz, the man who might hold the key to the mistery.

"Today MYM announced that they found th_my.png Ks guilty of maphack in their game against th_gr.png 1p, a lot of the community members were shocked and a lot of them didn't feel like it was conclusive evidence. As the pieces didn't fit together for me I decided to check it out myself with some help from a very experienced replay analyser when it comes to maphack cases seerTneerGevoLI from Clan TDA."

Full link below the article

Boyen "Naz-" Vangorp
Dota-Allstars.com Admin
You stated you looked into the replay as soon as it came out. How long did it take before you were convinced the accusations were not correct?
It actually didn't make any sense from the start for me because the team was playing in a LAN center, I don't know if you ever have been in a LAN center but as soon as a cheater is found all hell breaks loose. After I found out that all the actions were made in a short time span after the units were in fog I realized that something was wrong.

Why do you think MYM released these accusations? Where they just triggerhappy to find a maphacking team as so many are in the DotA community atm?
I respect MYM a lot as an organisation, I'm fairly certain that they did everything to be sure that this was indeed maphack and not something else. To my knowledge they interviewed nearly 10 people. At the same time, they could've just asked someone with a lot of experience in maphack cases, I would've forwarded them in an instant. I'm guessing they were proud to find a maphacker as well, it does take a lot of effort and they want to bring the message out that they do not tolerate maphackers which is something I support fully, but they need to be more careful.

We will need to see what the final verdict will be.

How does it feel to be caught cheating? We caught up with

Kanga.
You have been caught before and been pointed at by the community for maphacking. Recently Ks was caught aswel. How did you feel when you got caught?
I denied everything and took things quite lightly, only to notice the next days a 15 page thread on Dota-Allstars, wich have to admit quite surprised me. But I have to admit I enjoyed every post, every comment, especially Lego-'s later "propaganda" post.

Do you still have any effects in DotA by the fact you were caught and blamed in public?
Beside the fact that I was banned yet another time, none.

Where are you still banned now?
Only IHCS and some minor leagues I guess, like Dota-League. I'm allowed to play pride & nations.