FM Disqualified: Overview

Ryze @ 15th July 2011 18:46 (Read 25,487 times).
Hello everyone,
I'd like to start out with an introduction. I'm nevo.Ryze and I've played against FM/unique/MEMENTO in several official games, practice matches and against/with in inhouse leagues. This specific news came as a shock for the entire dota community. The amount of top teams that are officially accused of using maphack is RARE in the history of DotA.
While we are waiting for the documents from v1lat and the official answers from FM, I feel the need and the will to present everything from my point of view!

As a last word, before I start. I speak on my own behalf, and not on the behalf of my teammates or my sponsor.

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The news post
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v1lat consulted several people to make his decision.
Amongst those people were: Top players, IceFrog and a mapmaker.
v1lat never contacted FM players.

Link to the news post:
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/16216-failmicro-disqualified-for-maphacking

IceFrog's comment:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/members/icefrog/#vmessage128461

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After the news post
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v1lat has promised to deliver a document that showcase why FM has been disqualified.

Quoting v1lat:

Okay wil make all kind of eveidence document and publish tomorrow it)
But still I wont change mine decision



FM has been promised to be able to defend themselves and if they manage to do so, v1lat will change his decision.

v1lat:

Today I talked with BARBAR and we agreed that they will try to answer to all questions about details in every game. And if they will show to community that they really are honest and normal players - maybe situation will change somehow..

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Points amongst the massive amount of trolls
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**** 1st Point ****
Public before talking with the team?
v1lat is bias because of connection to the teams involved?

HellhoundXVI:

Mr. v1lat, did you give FM a single chance to defend itself before going public? Why not? Does fair play not decree a hearing from both sides? Why did you only take action after FM beat both Na'Vi and M5, why not after GC got beaten?


v1lat:

1st of all i publish all evedences and other stuff that was sent to me, I do it at prodota.ru casue I work for prodota.ru
And right after I recieved 1st mail about FM-GC game - I published it immideately at prodota.ru, there were like 600 posts in that threat called "BARBARR??", it was long before game vs Navi

2nd - If u really think that I am trying to help Navi or M5 - u know nothing at all. I have never helped Navi , and I fully dislike M5 team and will never ever help them, again if u knew russian - and watched my streams - u'd knew that fact.


**** 2nd Point ****
Proof required before taking action?
It's v1lats tournament, his rules?

5TR1DER:

The officials are yet to provide actual evidence of them maphacking (in English). I'm not a huge fan of FM but I don't think they are being treated fairly, a decision should not have been made this quickly, they should have postponed the tournaments and done a proper investigation. Personally I believe that FM are innocent, but not knowing anything about MH I can't say for sure.

IMO we need to get the community to stand up and get FM a fair trial at least, make it so no action is actually carried out until it can be proven that they used MH.


YoSnail:

#48 V1Lat: You must prove your case publicly and immediately. This is a highly serious and damaging accusation. FM has a right to see all of what is being held against them, because their name is at stake. The 'proofs' I have seen so far are shady and doubtful, btw.


v1lat:

3rd - nobody can with 100% say that somebody used MH, it is not CS and wer not using any anticheat. My decision was based at numorous facts from few games and mentions of top-players from MANY teams, and for example 1 known map-creator (NOT IF).

4th - with all this details u're ofc common. Like CM-redcircle, 2 times in 1 game, KOTL shit, Venomancer with super awarness, WR running out all game long.
But one of the main stuff for me, that TEAM WAS NOT CLICKING AT ENEMY HEROES AT ALL WITH LEFT CLICK.
Is it possible? U dont know what items they have, u dont know HP/MP u dont know does they have dust/smoke/agon/bkb...
Is it possible ????
Thats why I wasted a lot of time watching replays and talking with TOP-teams players and other guys with good knowledge of Dota-mechanics.

And only after all this stuff i made a decision.


**** 3rd Point ****
A new top team? Impossible.. MYM, CCM, etc > ALL!!111oneone

bone7:

#56 With good practice , discipline , patience and a good captain , some decent players could form a top1 team in Europe .


bone7:

Whoever gets upset cuz they think they loose because they play against MH . You are lowskilled ... I would like to see how could EHOME2010 or CCM2011 loose against MHers ( ofcourse not abusing like not buying observers on sentries even tho you have mh , don't make it obvious ;o ) . A decent execution of the game woulnd't get affected by mh if you don't rely on ganking . And meta-game nowadays is push towers-defend towers - teamfights . Gangs are so rare ... and most are getting fucked with counterganks .


Ryze: We want to defeat the chinese? Admit defeat and improve.

**** 4th Point ****
Gosugamers why do you present false info?

valcr1st:

I find gosugamers title disrespectful. Gosugamers simply cares shit about FM's reputation and instead, in order to be the center of atention, bashes on this unsponsored team. Thank god its unsponsored because if not, the sponsor would be on a terrible spot dealing with such harming accusations.


Machz:

#910

Stop whining. Gosugamers only stated what happened in the title. They didn't pass any judgement.


**** 5th Point ****
KS banned for MH!
http://www.mymym.com/en/news/12312.html
KS unbanned for MH!
http://www.mymym.com/en/en/news/12321.html

Maphack is a serious issue and should be treated as such. Hasty decisions has been made before - is history repeating itself? We need proof presented.


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Presenting the proofs
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I will present proofs/indications/accusations - everything will be listed as 'Evidence'.


**** Evidence 1 ****

Dendi explaining a suspicious move by kotl played by FM.ET.
http://www.own3d.tv/Dendipower#/watch/148198
Go to min 44 and watch.

FM.toxi:

(....)
and about ezalor wave i didnt readed in rules that random casting of wave is banned.


FM.asuna

(....)
rexxar appears bot alone, and enchantress is taken only for the pushing + backstabbing part. but hey, we should be playing vs AI who have a kotl whos gonna move forward and try to last hit at the tower against a rexxar who has 4 missing teammates. there was a line of fog, i thought there are 2 possibilites, i told snoop do illuminate to see the area there, he took a defensive position at tower (we thought they were next to secret shop) and gonna backstab from there and he did illuminate, if htey werent there in that line of fog, when snoop illuminated, then they should have been next to the ancient nuetralcreeps or secret shop. it was eliminating choices, turns out they were there, and the only reason we took that area, was simple, that place is more secure. if keeper wuda standed between 1st and 2nd tower and illuminated to the ancients there was a high risk of him dying.


**** Evidence 2 ****
FM.BABAARRRRRRRRR clicking Crystal maiden in Fog of war(without vision)
http://www.xfire.com/video/4a47bc/

antiweltteilchen (Respected wc3 Mechanic Forum Staff) http://www.playdota.com/forums/members/antiweltteilchen/

this detection method of fogclicks cant be a proof for mh, at maximum an indicator.
it has been proven that the players current delay to the server makes the hardcoded animation of the selection of a unit unprecise.

especially in close cases like this one noone should take a fogclick as a proof with harsh consequences like this.

my 2 cents to this topic.


**** Evidence 3 ****
Lacoste ganking Lich with Clock.

Deejay:


#410 http://gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48901

Watch from minute 15:30 of the game until minute 17:00. Clock was creeping on bot lane, Magina came and he retreats. Meanwhile the sent has 3 heroes top pushing the top tier 1 tower. Clock goes towards mid by the river. Sentinel has no wards to see he pick us the invi rune and comes mid to gank lich. AA is mid vs lich. Lich is outleveling him by 3 lvls: 11 vs 8 so there is no reason to go back. But as clockwork uses the invi and climbs the ramp from bot rune to go gank mid Lich is starting to go back. He was down in the river and goes near the tower. Stays there in the safety for a few seconds, then AA uses cold feet on him. Lich could run towards him and probably kill him but instead he goes back towards the tier 2 tower and he doesnt get frozen. Now he has full mana an 90% HP. Clock is waiting invi in the forest. Lich doesnt stay on lane and goes in the base.


apMvitamin:

#434: Lol, is that the clock-lich replay people keeps talking about?

You're mid with lich. Clock disappears bot. He's been gone for just appropriate time to show up to gank you, and AA puts a cold feet on you offensively while you're at your tower...

I dunno about you, but 1+1 says I'm going to get ganged by clock. Doubt that was maphack, to be honest.


FM.asuna:

about the lich going back to base, (here is the part which seperates inexperienced players from good players) theres something called ur laning opponents positioning, i wont explain positioning, but when a skillful opponent stands in bad position which u can kill him or harass him to half hp, then hes most probably baiting. babar saw no clock on map, i told him he was last seen bottom and clock cant solo vs me(i can only kill him and he cant do anything), clock had 3 options:
1. trying to kill antimage, its a waste since clock wont kill magina or be anywhere near killing him in his combo.
2.clock needed to tp top to help his teammates(drow furion and visage were getting killed by doom veno and venge) but he dint tp top as we saw.
2.5 Ancient Aparition was in bad position, Ancient Apparition was tower diving to use his "cold feet",
3.here its very obvious that clock was aiming to kill lich mid after he left bottom. if he had TP he woulda went top, seeing aa playing inside our tower under these conditions, it became very clear, and very predictable as to what else could it be?


**** Evidence 4 ****
Venom with suspicious movement

Read comment 310:
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/16216-failmicro-disqualified-for-maphacking/300

FM.Asuna:

All sentinel heroes are missing and two just appeared in the sentinel woods. So why would Veno and Tide venture alone in sentinel woods? They retreated upon sight. They wouldn't have gone there in the first place if they were maphacking, knowing that the entire sentinel team was there. I saw him use a perfectly logical ward in that screenshot. They must have realized three sentinel heroes were missing as well as noticing two sentinel heroes near them so they simply went back.


juremzenbourg:

Because they knew enigma was all alone in the far left of the jungle - That's the point!


**** Evidence 5 ****
NS' girlfriend speaks her mind on the case:

nightnday:

Info from prodota.ru
Ollesya (ns's girlfriend, also plays dota):
About 2-3 monthes ago NS played for FM under fake account and during the game one of FM guys got disconnected and he started to watch stream and tell all information about enemies to his teammated in english.
I don't see any reason for her to lie, NS said that he's 100% sure FM are mhers.
So, only for this "stream watching" accident they deserve to get banned.


FM.Asuna:

Ok, yes, this is true. NS and his female friend were with us on Vent when we needed a stand-in against TR. We had had an advantage throughout the game as they couldn't push first mid tower until 45 minutes into the game when Toxi disconnected. Toxi came on Vent, and he was watching the stream. He told us on Vent : "fuck my life, i did my best with maiden, fuck garena.." After that, he said "care care guys, TR are going to fight you 5v4". As soon as I heard that, I said : "DONT TELL US ANYTHING PLEASE", he didn't say any word after that. The result? We did a battle with TR ten seconds after that and we lost. All of us died I believe. He tried to be a bit helpful since he got disconnected but I didn't accept it and we lost the game.


The above statement is not confirmed by NS or his girlfriend.

**** Evidence 6 ****
Team Nordic-Esports shares their view on the case.

Calculus:

Alright, so i feel like adding my 50 cents on this matter as well.

I find it funny how, of all the people 'defending' FM, i don't know a single person.
And at the same time how SO many people, with well-established names in the scene all are accusing, or at least being suspicious of FM.

When my own team played vs FM (at that time unique), we also had the feeling that they were ungangable. I watched the replay, which can be found here: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/47327 and found several incidents that looked like they were either maphacking or 'stream cheating'.

@min 8.30: Lesh is coming mid to gang, while tinker is standing in the river farming. While leshrac is still in fog, tinker decides to cancel his attack to lasthit a ranged creep and turn around to his tower.

@min 11: Vengeful Spirit and Visage uses smoke at 2nd tower mid to gang Tinker mid. Tinker have been farming, while in the river. Now the lane pushes back to his tower, and with no vision whatsoever he decides to hide way behind his tower.

@min 14: WR coming to gang Tinker downlane, and tinker backs. WR turns around and runs towards the river, this triggers Tinker to run forward on lane. When WR then again turns around, Tinker does the same. Funny dance, except that WR was in fog the entire time.

I've been watching some of the other replays concering this and i must say that i find it REALLY incredible if the FM players have such a godlike map-awareness.

I agree 100% with v1lat's decission and i hope other leagues and tournaments will follow up on this. It's a shame and a disgrace to the competitive scene, and the entire community!


FM: No official answer for this.


**** Evidence 7 ****
The leshrac dance - suspiscious super awareness.

juremzenbourg:

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48450

3:30-4:00, U will see here cm+wd use smoke of deceit in fog and they walk to babar and he did the "leshrac dance" (3:52)... Now here it's possible he will say "they dont gang clock, maybe they will come to me" but I see they are miss for 2-3min. From lvl1 they had smoke in inventory. How can he be not scared ?? How he dont B other times like when apprition use skills? Lesh will be destroyed by cm+wd+apprition on early level. Clock dont use rocket to show map. Guys I urge U watch this.


FM: No official answer

**** Evidence 8 ****
Lots of teams are complaining about FM. This list is not official or confirmed, but was posted and now quoted. Please let me know who to include or remove:

MotanuD:

So...

FM is beeing acused more or less by people from:

- Na'Vi
- Ok.Nirvana.Int
- Virus
- M5
- GC
- NE
- Dc.com


Not confirmed.

Corrections to the list:
Muga_Riptide: "Could you please take DC.com from that list. We never acused FM of MH'ing"

**** Evidence 9 ****
Is it possible to play DotA without clicking once on your opponents heroes?

NaVi-MacDee

1. First of all, let's talk about heroes, who never identified enemy heroes: Furion with Dagon, Windrunner, Keeper of The Light. What do you think about such players? Is this their play style? On such highlevel.. I don't think so.


FM: No official answer

**** Evidence 10 ****
Windrunner-Beastmaster dance.

NaVi-MacDee:

2. Second game Na`Vi vs Unique. Windrunner goes home from top lane (goes through the top rune). 8 mins 56 secs of the game (look with me please). She doesn't see Beastmaster, that going top rune. But runs away when she "sees" that he goes to her. Reflex or what? He returns to the mid. She cameback and goes home through top rune... WTF?


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 11 ****
Troll-dance. This is one example amongst many - I will only include this one for simplicity.

mine777:

Just look at replay between Fm and Gc, let me describe what I've seen:

1. Troll free farm top, no ward, 2 heroes from scourge missing

2. Troll push to the second tower ALONE, no ward, 2 heroes from scourge still missing.

3. troll still farming, 2 heroes still missing, no ward.

4. suddenly troll run back to tower, still 2 hero missing, no ward.

5. he return to farm immediately, still 2 hero missing...

In nearly 5min, 2 heroes from scourge missing, he still farming and only back when they come ganking him. And he return to farming the second after that?


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 12 ****
Dodging smokes seems easy for FM. Care to share your trick?

xRdR:

Just my 2 cents:

http://www.regame.tv/vod/4629

Recorded live stream of the game between TOM and FM. Check the moment at 53:10. TOM uses smoke at their base and starts running towards FM. The whole FM team synchronously starts running in the opposite direction.

They haven't seen TOM using smoke, they had no wards, so how did their running style successfully avoided that gank? They even stopped running and turned back at the EXACT(!) same time as TOM stopped searching for them.

Even commentator in LIVE(!) stream said that the whole game was waaay too suspicious and that FM are probably maphacking or ghosting his stream.

That was long before the NAVI incident.

BobrDobr (Captain of TOM) carefully analyzed replay after that game and said that this simply could not have been predicted or foreseen.


FM: No official answer

**** Evidence 13 ****
Ungankable team?

Druids.panterspot:

I've played vs 3 teams that were impossible to gank compared to any other team I played against.
FM,
Virus
and MyM.
Even though I never bothered with looking it up cause I'm lazy like that the whole team got Maphack chills in our nerd-spines during these games. And I'm pretty MyM didn't use it cause they are far too aware and last games vs Virus didn't feel MH:ish either.
I'm not accusing anyone but some play looks and feel really suspicious.


**** Evidence 14 ****
Clock Illu gank.
FM got vision, but are clicking on units in their lanes, which indicates that they didn't pay attention on which clock is the real after taking the illu rune.

weatherthestorm:

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48901

12:00 when clock got illus rune top, ET dont care at all even tho furion is near - but lich knows which is its real..

for me this is TERRA GIGA mh or stream ghost, beyond possibility of map awareness completely - remember - at 12:00 U can see all 4 players but toxi moving and clicking their lanes so they werent even watching which of the 3 clock illusion were real


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 15 ****
Venge smoke gank.

weatherthestorm:

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48901

17:00 smoke gang.. babar runs to mid tower even though venge never enter fog which means he cant even know where venge is for long time nor can he know venge got smoke.. but they are so ready.. Imba impossibl omg


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 16 ****
Waiting for opponents to go to their lanes before deciding their own lanes?

KingLorik

also if u watch asuna when the matches are starting he always w8 enemies to pick their lanes and then he go the lane he wants,u forgot to mention this i guess , (watch this http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48450) i am sure u can see that GC were staying at the fountain not picking any lane and asuan is staying at his fountain "not buying any item" and he was not afk he was clicking at heroes,when GC s 3lane chose to go bot lane then asune went top


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 17 ****
Even though MH outside v1lat's tournaments doesn't bring anything to the table at ALL. It adds up as an accusation. If they use MH casually, do they use it professionally?

BigBoii:

their maphack usage was even spotted in inhouse leagues over europe. Sucky individual skill, fantastic performance and incredible map awareness.


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 18 ****
Special dewarding techniques by FM.
(Read: I didn't watch this myself. Feel free to confirm or complain about it in comments)

juremzenbourg:

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/48072 around 1:00 - 2:00 babar immediately counterwards Enigma's first ward - but somehow you're tempted to say "ah, he was in vision of sentinel's wards, maybe they checked his inventory right before he ran up and down hill and saw he was missing a ward". Strong play by strong team right?

Now, skip to 6:00 and watch until 6:35 or so.


Enigma tp's, gets barely scouted for like maybe half a second?l and babar goes down to kill mid.. lays ward.. babar kills ward instantly..

11:50 cun lays ward but they dont see - babar goes and kills it with sentry.. at 13:00++

!?!?!

WTF? Babar running around map killing all wards with sentry.. never even miss one! Most of the time he had very little vision or none in the area at all!

18:00++ again..


FM: No official answer.

**** Evidence 19 ****
NE.Calculus earlier shared his concerns. Dutch_Freak adds another evidence to the table.

Dutch_Freak:

Since you guys got accused of maphacking, i started to analyze our game against you guys for the div1 slot.

There were many suspicious actions there as well.

-A kotl wave casted against smoked units. ==> okay might be another good gamble.

-Pre min 0, supports usddenly change their directions once an intire smoked team coming to their direction. ==> okay might be luck, or some game 'feeling'

-A tinker goes from mid to bottom, pausing at the rune spot. Tinker wants to gang bottom. The lane is pushed to scourge. Enigma being coached tinker is missing is staying back 20 sec. After 20 sec he starts moving towards the lane again. The exact moment tinker ( after waiting 20 sec w/o farm wtf?!) moves to the lane to complete the gang. Note that tinker didnt start moving once enigma was visible, but once enigma started moving. ==> okay another very lucky guess.

- You guys are preparing for a teamfight bottom. You have a ward placed which could spot us coming bottom. In replay speed 0,5 you ping on us coming there after 0,01 sec. Thats an impossible reaction. ==> well mayb you were just saying 'they might come soon from there' and while you ping we show up. yet again a very lucky guess.

-Lich wants to come mid after a gang top. 2 supports are waiting uphill. they wait there for about 10 sec. without moving. The moment lich is getting near (w/o being visible ofc) instantly you guys move towards lich. ==> okay you might expect lich there. yet again very lucky timing.

-Lich is barely visible and blinking twice into vision. after disapearing for 3 seconds shaker casts a bit of a random useless stun, hitting lich. ==> okay we have seen more of those gambling stuff.


Replay link: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/replays/45134

FM: No official answer.

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Closing thoughts
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I've presented close to all accusations made public and I've tried to include all their answers.
I'm looking forward to their answers.

/Peace out
Ryze

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