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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ Alchemist, hero of awesomeness
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Moontracker
Alchemist, hero of awesomeness (4450 reads, 19 replies, 1 year ago)

Hi everyone,

I've been playing solely alchemist with NE for some time now versus every race. I was quite bored with grand classics and i must say i am quite impressed about the results. My ratings don't seem to be much lower than when i was playing the classics, except vs humans. So i wanted to share my experience about this hero so that if anyone feels like trying him, they would at least know where to start.


1. Wich race is fit for the alchemist?

First of all, i don't consider that alchemist can be played as first hero with any other races than Ne. This is mainly for 2 reasons:

- He as a lot of HP with no armor. This means that you will require a lot of healing early on. This healing can only come from slaves as orc or moonwells as ne. Undead and humans are in this way, excluded. Some people say that he takes too much well juice to be a good choice as ne. For my part, i don't find this being a problem because this is compensated by the fact that his mana barely never gets completely drained (Rage costs only 25 mana) and also by the fact that Ne can use AOW creeping to diminish damage taken.

- Alchemist benefits from ff since acid bomb reduces armor. So, orc being a meele race, it does not fit well with alchemist as first hero. And, orc already as a great physical damage dealing hero, the Blade master.


2. Alchemist uniqueness

Alchemist is quite unique:

- He as the lowest armor of all heros. This is probably his main weak point. He will quickly go down when ff by physical attacks. On the other hand, he is less susceptible to be nuked by spells.

- He as the best physical damage dealing capabilities of all when he uses rage (even more than a Blade master). He as chasing abilities comparable to those of the Blade master also.

- He gains more ability points (6.3 instead of 6) than all other heros. This is why he gains to be chosen as your first hero.


3. Wich skills to pick?

Definetly rage and acid bomb. Healing spray can be occasionnaly taken if needed but it stays mostly a out-of-combat skill.

-Rage: This skill is definetly the skill a alchemist can't go without. In wc3, there is only 3 skills (if i am right) wich can be improved by items: Critical strike, Drunken brawler and Rage. To improve the efficiency of Rage, you will need boots (a must!), gloves of haste and agility items.

- Acid bomb: Acid bomb improves the output damage by reducing armor and creating a DOT effect.

So, how to build up the alchemist? First skill picked is without any question Rage. Gives a 50% increased movement speed and a 25% increased attack speed. Rage is best used in static fights and acid bomb is best used for chasing. This is mainly because if you are chasing, you can't launch as many attacks with Rage as if you are fighting in a static state.

4. Build order

- Send 4 wisps to mine, the 5th one builds a AOW in a way that it can be used also for creeping.
- The 6th wisp builds a moonwell. It is really important to build it so that you will be able to close the back of your town to create a sanctuary for your wisps or archers in case of a rush.
- Then, when you reach 80 wood, start building an altar and then when you get 10 more wood, build 2nd moonwell.
- Afterwards i send the next 4-5 wisps a bit everywhere oon the map. I use 1 to scout, 1 near the hero tavern and some other wisps to keep an eye open on different key locations on the map.

The next building i usually make is the ancient of wonder. This building allows me to close my base. I build it early or late depending on wich race i play vs and the size of the map. I build it after 1 archer in the case i am playing vs orc. Otherwise, i usually wait until i got 2-3 archers. If i am playing versus Hum and i sense a tower rush, i usually build a 2nd Aow in my base instead of a shop. I usually carry producing archers and wisps until i reach 28-30 food. Around that time i usually teck to tier 2.

5. Units used

These are baselines but as everyone knows, you must always adapt.

- Vs orc: 4-6 archers, mass DOTTS. Using cyclone is the key move to victory.

- Vs Ud (ghouls, gargs): mass archers, hyppos (with mount ability)

- Vs Ud (fiends, destros, aboms): mass archers, driads, 1-2 DOTTS (for fairie fire wich stacks with acid bomb), at least 1-2 bears for rejuv.

- Vs Ne: mass archers, mass driads and bears

- Vs Hum: This is where it really gets nasty and you never ever know what you really need. The baseline vs hum is to keep scouting, not letting expand and keep harrassing.


6. 2nd hero picks

My favorite 2nd pick is naga since i can ff heros to death in a nasty way. With an angry Alchemist backed up by frost arrow, every unit is condemned. But, if i play vs ghouls gargs or vs foots or casters, i recommand going for a AOE heros like the Panda or PL.


7. What is so amazing with alchemist?

What is really amazing about alchemist is his capability of chasing down a hero to death. No other heros can chase down a fleeing WW Blade master down to death. This what makes the Alchemist so cunning.

8. Items are the key

Just as the Blade master, the alchemist needs matching items to exploit his maximum potential. Boots are a must, and an invulnerability potion will make him an unstoppable beast.


I hope this post will make more people enjoy playing the alchemist.
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1 year ago
#1
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iP.Klive
best structured guide i've ever seen. gonna try this mate ;) thank you for sharing with us
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1 year ago
#2
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StenGah
Nice guide, I don't play Elf but I liked it. :) Maybe I will play Elf just to "LoL" around :D
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1 year ago
#3
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Moontracker
Thanks for the feedback. I really think that the alchemist as been underestimated. I beated up a lot of top 100 solo players with him especially orcs and ud. Humans are still the hardest to beat but i think that with any heros, a Hum Ne matchup is the hardest.

Just so you know, i usually get up to 28-30 food with archers and wisps before using my Aow for creeping.
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1 year ago
#4
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Eli_King
Nice guide - just know that When an orc player plays vs a human mass gryphon/dragonhawk - the orc MUST an alchemist for reduce the armor ( and make damege ofcourse :D ) of the air units of the human with his acid bomb - that mass bats can cripple the human force much easilly.
בני זונות
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1 year ago
#5
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37927
Can you add some replays, I wanna see this strategy on work?
I like trains.
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1 year ago
#6
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Moontracker
I work away from home during the week, i will add some replays this weekend for those who would like to check it out.
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1 year ago
#7
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ShuffleAndDeal
Wow, quality post right here dude. Useful guide and really interesting read. I remember I did this some time back almost precisely as you described it because I think i'd seen SaSe doing something similar (against undead?) which I thought was cool so I copied it. Also, I just love Alchemist so much, although, with crit I still think BM has the best damage output seen generally. But a Alchi with boots, 2 gloves, elven boots and 2 claws he can really be considered a one man army on higher levels. And his ultimate spell is just gosh darn lovely. 600 gold wyrms? Baam, oh thanks ^^
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1 year ago
#8
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Evilm
i think mouz.Sase was using alchemist in competitive matches but that was sooo long ago : ) nice guide, +1
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1 year ago
#9
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M4_Masterkey
I saw once game UD + Alchemist(boots,claws etc.) + necro and incres speed attack+ one frost, that was really sick !!
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1 year ago
#10
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Moontracker
#7 I will make some calculations to compare the damage output produced by the Blade Master and the Alchemist. But when you had the damage over time produced by Acid Bomb and the fact that it reduces armor, i think that the Alchemist as the best. You need to take into account that Rage is not based on luck but Critical strike is. Also, about the gold produced by Transmute, it gives you 80% of the units cost on a 45 sec cd. So if you transmute a wyrm, it will give you 308 gold.

#9 Yes Alchemist boosted with Unholy frenzy or Blood lust is insane. The problem is that with Alchemist, you want him to be in the heart of battle all the time (That's also why having an invulnerability potion is so important). With Ud, you got no good source of healing at tier 1, and even tier 2 statues seems not enough (tier 2 Ne as bears with rejuv.). Also, ranged units as ud does'nt come out as early as ne. At pro level, going Alchemist as Ud is suicidal.
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1 year ago
#11
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PsychoBaBas
Great post,

Thank you for your contribution.

Here's 250 points for you sir!

Regards,

Gosucrew
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1 year ago
#12
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Banshii
=) Well I like it as second hero =) for Orc.
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1 year ago
#13
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Moontracker
This post will be about managing items when using Alchemist. As you already know, Rage can be boosted by items to give a cutting edge to the alchemist. So, lets get a closer look to item managing.

1. Best items for your inventory slots

Even if Alchemist is a Strenght based hero, most of the time, it is best to stack agility items since the effect of Rage.

"Permanent items" (best items in order)

Boots of Speed

- +movement speed (effect is doubled when using Rage)

Boots of Quel'Thalas

- +12% attack speed (+15%, +21%, +27% when using Rage)
- +1.8 armor

Gloves of haste

- +10% attack speed (+12.5%, +17.5%, +22.5% when using Rage)

Belt of Giant Strenght

- +6 damage
- +150hp
- 3 hp/sec regeneration

Afterwards, you should look out for claws of attack, orb of venom or other strenght or agility based items.


2. In long term games...

In long term games i recommand carrying 1 invulnerability potion + permanent items on your Alchemist. Your Naga should have a staff of sanctuary, and scrolls including scroll of town portal. Since i make her carry all this good stuff, i usually go for Mana Shield at lvl 2 and 4. If you have a 3rd hero, boost him also with scrolls. Try staying at low upkeep and then buy items for your heros. When i reach 50 food, i usually stay in a no upkeep state and buy items. You should consider buying Boots of speed for your naga also.


3. A little Staff of teleportation trick

When your alchemist is FF and you need to use staff of preservation on him, don't you think it would be great for your alchemist to have a Staff of teleportation so you can heal him with wells and teleport him back into battle?
But who would sacrifice a item wich can boost him even more for an occasionnaly used staff? Here is the trick;

When you built your town, you carefully made a sanctuary in the back for your wisps and units. Buy a Staff of teleport and drop it in your sanctuary so no ennemy hero will be able to pick it up. When your Naga will teleport your alchemist back home, since you will have a free inventory slot from using your invulnerability potion, pick up the staff and teleport yourself back! With this trick, you will be able to bring your alchemist back into battle without having to sacrifice 1 inventory slot.


* In my first post, at #2 "Alchemist uniqueness" i forgot to mention that alchemist was also unique because he starts with the ability to attack air units (the goblin on the ogres back trows acid bottles). Also, the Alchemist as the best attack dmg (starting at 41.5 avg dmg). The 2nd best avg damage belongs to the Blade master with 37 avg dmg.

*I will soon be posting some replays.
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1 year ago
#14
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whodaphukami
do you have a link to the number specifics on hp regen given by str values?
ǝsooɯʎuouɐ
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1 year ago
#15
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Moontracker
#14 http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/heroes.shtml
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1 year ago
#16
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Moontracker
In this post i came up with some maths to compare the DPS output between the Alchemist and Blade master at lvl 5. I assumed that the targeted unit had 4 armor. We shall see results after 15 and after 30 secs.

1. Hero Statistics

Blade master Statistics (LvL 3 Critical Strike, LvL 2 WW)
- 44 avg. Damage
- 31 agility
- 1.77 starting attack CD

Alchemist Statistics (LvL 3 Rage, LvL 2 Acid Bomb)
- 54.5 avg. Damage
- 14 agility
- 2.5 starting attack CD

2. Calculating Attack Cooldown

Formula: base CD*(100/ (100+bonus))
Agility bonus: 2% per agility point

Blade Master
- Agility bonus = 2% * 31 = 62%
- Attack CD = 1.77*(100/(162)) = 1.09

Alchemist
- Agility bonus = 2% * 14 = 28%
- Attack CD = 2.5*(100/(128)) = 1.95
- Attack CD with Rage lvl 3 = 0.78

3. Calculating damage reduction or increase for armor

Formula: ((armor)*0.06)/(1+0.06*(armor))

Blade Master
((4)*0.06)/(1+0.06*(4)) = 19.35% reduction

Alchemist
((0)*0.06)/(1+0.06*(0)) = 0% reduction

4. Calculating added dmg due to abilities

Blade Master
WW lvl 2 damage bonus (applied once at the start of the fight)
- 70 damage bonus on 1st hit

Alchemist
Acid Bomb lvl2 damage bonus (applied once at the start of the fight)
- 150 damage bonus over 15 sec

5. Calculating DPS over 15 sec

Blade Master
- Number of hits in 15 sec = 15 /1.09 = 13.76 hits
- Normal avg. damage = 13.76 * 44 = 605.44 dmg
- Avg. damage for strike = (13.76 * 0.15)*(3*44) = 272.45 dmg
- Damage output for 15 sec. = 605.44 + 272.45 + 70 = 947.89 dmg
- Final damage after armor reduction = 947.89 – (947.89*0.1935)= 764.47 dmg

Alchemist
- Number of hits in 15 sec = 15 /0.78 = 19.23 hits
- Normal avg. damage over 15sec = 19.23 * 54.5 = 1048.04 dmg
- Final damage output for 15 sec. = 1048.04 + 150 = 1198.04 dmg

6. Final results

Over 15 sec, the damage goes as follows;

Blade master = 764.47 dmg or 50.96 DPS

Alchemist = 1198.04 dmg or 79.87 DPS

Over 30 sec, the Blade master as a higher DPS due to Rage being inactive. The DPS over 30 sec for each hero goes as follows;

Blade master = 50.96 DPS

Alchemist = 51.21 DPS

The drastic loss on DPS for the Alchemist after 15 sec is due to the fact that Acid Bomb and Rage are on CD.
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1 year ago
#17
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Eli_King
nice work dude ur guide is effective :-D
בני זונות
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1 year ago
#18
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Moontracker
Hi everyone,

I found a little mistake in my calculations. When i calculated CD with Rage lvl3, i used 2.5 as divider instead of 2.25 (Wich represents increase of the attack speed). As a result;

Alchemist damage output

After 15 sec: 1093,27 damage
DPS after 15 sec: 72,89

After 30 sec: 50,42 DPS

This Brings the Blade Master on top after 30 sec.
Sorry for the miscalculation.
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1 year ago
#19
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Moontracker
For those who wish to see replays, i would be happy to send you some.
Let me know what matchup you are looking for, wich map, etc, and let your email adress. I got some problems uploading replays because of privileges.

Best regards,
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