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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ old UD player, why no1 make necros?
Shirazumi
old UD player, why no1 make necros? (4397 reads, 15 replies, 1 year ago)
I used to play warcraft 3 TFT ladder a lot during 2004-2006. I was able to attain a 60% record and I was closing in on the dark ranger icon (UD was my primary race). Unfortunately, my ladder play abruptly ended coz custom games were filled with map hackers, so in order to compete on even grounds, I used MH on some maps when its competitive. Unfortunately when I was chatting with someone , I hit the hot key for for quick game ( it was set on 1vs1 since RT is relies on a ridiculous amount of luck of what type of team mates you get) and I get the instant que'ed because of that. My MH was still on at that point. :(

I left on the first second in the game, but Blizzard was mean and locked my CD key from ladder play and deleted my precious account. I know I could get another CD key and never use MH, which I already started doing 2 months later since fog adds a whole dimension of fun and the games were becoming too easy with MH. But losing an account with about 1000 wins on record can be very demoralizing.

I recently regained some interests in ladder play and I viewed some of the replays from top players and I'm sort of baffled. They all do the same generic strat of DK, Lich, fiends and destroyers. Why? My strat generally consisted of DR, DK, and if game lasts long enough, lich. Dk as a starting hero is too defensive for clearing a stronger creeps effectively fast, too defensive to rush against someone, and has no reliable way of ensuring a killing blow on blade master early. Furthermore, none of them even attempt to expo! I guess this because with a DK, the player can not really attempt to clear any of the more advanced creeps in a reliably fast pace and that severely limits the places a UD can expo in. As such it is easy for the opposing player to guess where the UD would likely expand.

Its not just hero choices that bugs me, but the pro players make no use of their own casters. I love necros, not for their skellys, but for the unholy frenzy which provides UD a more enhanced straight combat buff than any other race, particularly at tier 2. I picked up using necros for unholy frenzy when in a mirror match, I lost to frenzied spiders. How come no one uses this? Unholy frenzy, because of its side cost in draining the user of HP, means that any anti caster autocast would not work and they would have to manually remove the said buffs (spellbreakers and dryads). The casters with aoe dispels are not magic immune and therefore it is easy to to silence all of them and have your frenzied DR+ Spiders pick them all off and turn them into skellies in a matter of seconds. I don't understand why no1 uses necros when their unholy frenzy manual casts should be easy for them to place on their armies, especially if they have shades on the opposing army so they know when the battle will commence.

And what's with this notion creating a large amount of destroyers in 1vs1? I get it that they retain their mana for a short while and destroy those burrows within seconds, but anymore, it is just redundant to their primary role, anti-casters. You're better off with creating a frosties for the role they use it in destroying heavy armored units. A frosty or 2(especially frenzied) is also great arsenal when added in with a DK to create a large movement advantage. Sacrificial pit should already be built during tier 2 anyways for shades.

Besides, I find it extremely embarrassing for any UD player to lose to orc if they manage to get into any late game situation, all because they just didn't expand. Its an extremely idiotic fabricated notion that undead can't expo good. That is only true against orcs, because of their retarded raiders that should had been nerfed the first month the expansion came out. But just coz they can't expand good doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to do so. Once UD is in tier 3, all they have to do is reach a critical number of spiders and frosties to win and the advantage is shifted to them.

I also don't the logic of selling ring of protections. WTF is that? I understand some items may be useless, but ring of protection? they're godly on a DK who gets FF'ed. If they didn't sell their all those protective items, there would be no need to constantly travel to a goblin merchant shop constantly buying potions of invunerabilities to avoid a 5 second death to a surround. A beefed up DK would last much longer and trying to kill that DK may result in them losing their entire army. The UD player should be killing heros faster than any other race with the amount of nukes and movement control it has anyways in tier 3. Unholy frenzy is icing on the cake to this fact since its the strongest buff in terms of offense.

Hero line up is usually DR, DK, and Lich. My strategy generally consists of going spiders and using my ghouls until enough skellys are created, into a few necros and stats and possibly meat wagons depending on the circumstances in tier 2 and tier 3 adding in frosties and possibly abombs or meat wagons and destroyers if my DR wasn't enough to quell the opposing casters. It probably needs more fine tuning 1vs1, but against humans, its great vs pallies and rushing prior to tier 2 to transform their militia into skellies. NE, this strat basically forces them to do nothing other than dryad and bears and you should have the advantage if your army is intact with frosties and 1-2 destroyers in it and they do not have a hero advantage (unholy frenzy is undispellable unless they wish to focus their micro into dispelling).

For 2vs2 with a good orc partner, i think it is perfect. The orc provides me a strong meat shield instead of relying on the skellies the DR create off creeps. I only had 1 decent orc partner, and he quit playing ladder way before me, and at the time, we were average. We were able to get 50 wins and so few losses despite that, the loses only resulted from being out micro'ed during the first 5 minutes of the game. Basically he just gets grunts and some raiders and fast techs to getting tauren. I do my usual line up, but he's at tier 3 already while I'm still on tier 2 since I like to expand in team games and it ends up each time easy win, because frenzying the taurens + grunts + spider is insane and I silence the casters and kill them all in a handful of seconds. If it lasts long enough,I get frosties while he gets witch doctors.

soooo, back to my main question, how come no competitive player uses necros?
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1 year ago
#1
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itsRaining-
hacker doooooooooown

''Scissors are OP, rock is fine.'' - Paper
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#2
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fullofshit
rofl nice time hacking. It really helped for the newb u are now.
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1 year ago
#3
Shirazumi
STFU, I have never used any sort of 3 party program to win me any ladder matches and I was playing during the period when warcraft 3 ladder was very popular. My CD key would had been banned a lot sooner if that was the case.

I'm going to be playing SC2 anyways since seems to have a larger ladder base population anyways. It seems even ladder play is filled with hackers now just like diablo 2, so no, any interest in acquiring a new CD key had died, because of that. I was just wondering why no one uses necros in any advanced plays.



I didn't bother going to into depth details of when to ghoul harass with starting ghoul, rush, attack, positioning, harass, the use of skellies from creeps, when and where to expo and attack same time, and defend against harass because it would take forever to type it all out. Dks and liches are most effective during the lvl 3-5 interval while a DR becomes a powerhouse at the start of lvl 4 and only becomes more powerful, so it makes sense for her to be the first hero. Besides, I consider her the best snowballing hero in most situations where if the opponent messes up, the the advantage for becomes far too great for the opponent to compensate and her presence makes a lot tactics very ineffective against me. Besides, its fun wiping out a 40 food army with no hero support with just a high level DR and DK.

I probably needed to pick any first hero when vs orcs, because if orcs didn't exist with a 50% win ratio against them, my win % would had been so much higher, but regardless. Why should i need to explain anything when you offered no explanation to your comment?

Besides I don't know if any new patches came out that changes the game in any fundamental aspects. But it looks like unholy frenzy remains the same.
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#4
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TomikuS
wtf ?
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1 year ago
#5
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Eli_King
It's a bit funny that you have wrote all of your WarCraft 3 stupid/halirious exprerience in your life ,Exept of just ask simply at the first commecnt why do no undead your mass necroes... well you have been wasting too much time and you have pulled to you a dew clounds of the forum :D

Ok I'll answer simply - no1 use. Because Necromancers are realy weak ,every spell of them can be dispelled so easlly and every necromancer can be turn apart easlly (and don't forgot to write my signature XD).
בני זונות
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1 year ago
#6
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ShuffleAndDeal
I played the ladder in 04-06 as well. I had no idea about the pro scene and I was a complete noob, but I did. To answer your question, in a low level of play, necros are fine. But you cant imagine how its like on a higher level of play. Orc players and any other player in general that plays on the very highest level as of now has been active since like forever, and has probably seen every single strategy in play. Undead players obviously dont use the necro play-style since it doesnt work on a higher level, Orcs know how to counter it.
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1 year ago
#7
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itsRaining-
2010-09-19 10:19, ShuffleAndDeal wrote:
I played the ladder in 04-06 as well. I had no idea about the pro scene and I was a complete noob, but I did. To answer your question, in a low level of play, necros are fine. But you cant imagine how its like on a higher level of play. Orc players and any other player in general that plays on the very highest level as of now has been active since like forever, and has probably seen every single strategy in play. Undead players obviously dont use the necro play-style since it doesnt work on a higher level, everyone knows how to counter it.
''Scissors are OP, rock is fine.'' - Paper
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#8
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Gosu_r4nd0m
2010-09-19 10:49, itsRaining- wrote:
2010-09-19 10:19, ShuffleAndDeal wrote:
I played the ladder in 04-06 as well. I had no idea about the pro scene and I was a complete noob, but I did. To answer your question, in a low level of play, necros are fine. But you cant imagine how its like on a higher level of play. Orc players and any other player in general that plays on the very highest level as of now has been active since like forever, and has probably seen every single strategy in play. Undead players obviously dont use the necro play-style since it doesnt work on a higher level, everyone knows how to counter it.

hahaha that made my day:D
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1 year ago
#9
Shirazumi
2010-09-19 10:19, ShuffleAndDeal wrote:
I played the ladder in 04-06 as well. I had no idea about the pro scene and I was a complete noob, but I did. To answer your question, in a low level of play, necros are fine. But you cant imagine how its like on a higher level of play. Orc players and any other player in general that plays on the very highest level as of now has been active since like forever, and has probably seen every single strategy in play. Undead players obviously dont use the necro play-style since it doesnt work on a higher level, Orcs know how to counter it.


I made topic while under the influence!

It was stupid question to ask when the answer was obvious, because of the hero choice. No, it isn't because of what the pro scene was like, I forgot my tactics always involves silencing the casters and heroes and kill em. And no, it works especially well on orcs since they lack any magic immune units.

sorry!

as for the idiot above the quoted post, read the topic before even spouting out stupid shit. go do an hero.

why are ud players now a days lame and always pick a DK as a first hero? nobody is original. -.-

Edit: I just read the last several posts more carefully, its not a mass skelly necro strat you fucktards and you only need 2-3 of them with initiate training.
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#10
Shirazumi
.
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#11
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itsRaining-
Whatever your strat is, it is not viable. Atleast until you have beaten anyone good with it.

And I doubt that you wont. DR(1st) IS SHIT VS ORC... why? Cuz blackarrow is useless vs 800hp grunts and lifedrain blows anyway. WoHOo you had silence and 5sec later you have no army/hero cuz they all died thx to having no dk.
''Scissors are OP, rock is fine.'' - Paper
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1 year ago
#12
plsdeletethisacc
kinda hard to make it work against good players... if they scout and know what you're doing, the probability of them counter you is pretty high... i mean, every race has aoe dispells and one (at max two) can kill an entire army of summoned skeletons..

sometimes they don't even need the dispells (i.e.: blademaster eating your necros like np)
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1 year ago
#13
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ortinco
I remember insomnia get beated by necro one time. Sky lost vs th000 too (even if he won the series). Necro dont always suck...
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1 year ago
#14
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pureeugene
#13 he said against ORC. read man
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1 year ago
#15
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awemOJ
I remember, when some pro UD's started doing necrowagon rushes when the mass destro single DK was popular. It just rapes a human who's expanding and it's pretty fast as well. And most of the time it worked. I really loved that strat.
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