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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ Undead AOE build

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Moontracker

Undead AOE build (13013 reads, 60 replies, 2 years ago)

Hi to all,

I have been playing quite a while at Warcraft. Actually i must be near 10000 games. I played RT 2v2 on most of those games. I have always been the kind of dude wich never wanted to stick onto probabilities. This means that i have refuted most of the best rounded up builds to come up with something different. In the past 2 days, i was looking for a forum with a topic about the cryptlord and pitlord combo. I could'nt find one so i have decided to subscribe to gosugamers.net and post the whole idea.

In this blog, i will talk about the best unusual build i have came up with. Some people will say i have not come up with it. I am not sure if i have, but i have adopted this teck since they released the pitlord. This build is done by few Ud players and i am probably one of the only ones who trully used it deeply (More than 95% of my Ud games). I maintained an overall 65-70% when i played it during the first 4 seasons. It is still as cunning today mainly in 2v2s but it is also viable versus many match up in 1v1.

1. Main hero idea:

Crypt Lord 1st: Empale, Spikes or Beetles, Empale....

Pit Lord 2nd: Rain of fire, Cleaving or Howl, Rain of fire...

Lich 3rd (Do not forget orb): Nova, Dark ritual...

The main idea with CL/PL combo is to "Fire Rain" then "Empale" to stun the units into the fire and make a big amount of damage. This kind of teck will force your opponents into getting magic immune units, air or Heavy meele. It will prevent your ennemy from making ghouls, archers and foots unless he wants to meet his doom. This kind of combo is highly effective versus most 1st tier units.

Both Cryptlord and Pitlord have high HP and tanking capabilities wich will make them hard to kill. Those 2 heros do not necessitate the help of a Death knight if managed properly (scroll of healing and inv potions for an extra survivability). The Crypt lord with empale is very useful for:

- Hero Surround
- Chasing units down
- Making up some time for possession with banshees

The lich as third hero as probably most of you guessed it out is for hero nuking. As i said, dont forget the orb since it's a major blow with FF.

2. Building order (Usually)

- Send ghoul and acos, 1 aco makes a Crypt
- 5th aco out makes Zig and Graveyard
- At 180 gold, build Altar
- Make 2 ghouls

After your 1st ghoul comes out, you have the possibility to scout with 1 or 2 ghouls. Scouting with 2 ghouls can make your opponent cancel builds some times but you can also go short on wood.

- At 280 gold, build Shop+Zig
- Make 1 fiend
- At 100 gold, upg Zig (might be optional)

Hero comes out with 1st fiend.

- Make 1 fiend

Buy wand, start raising skelies from the Graveyard (2 or 4 skelies depending where you plan to creep)and start creeping. From here there is a lot of possibilities

Some ideas:

-Making 1 more aco with a sacrificial skull and make a quick expo with a quick zig to protect it.

-Fast tier 2 to have a quick Pit lord with the option of pushing before the ennemy gets tier 2 buildings (As soon as you get the Pl, you have your best opportunity to rush the ennemy).

- Making some more fiends before tecking (In worst cases and you want to avoid this)

3. Main units to build (1st round)

Tier 1

With this kind of teck, the main 1st tier unit to start with for attacking purpose is fiend. You will probably need a lot of those. Ghouls can be worth making only later on if needed (Versus mass breakers or mass driads when they try to counter your aoe. This scenario is bound to happen often especially when you use Cl/Pl in conjonction with banshee). If you are up against those later on, since aoe will be useless, your ghouls wont be affected by Rain of fire. In such a case, you might also want to buy a tome of retaining to swap skills. With Fire rain, remember that your ghouls are at risk. If you do need ghouls, it is because you wont probably use Rain of fire.

Tier 2

When you reach tier 2, you will need the essential Slaughter house for Statues. Statues will probably be the only other tier 2 unit (else than fiends) you will make until you hit tier 3. A sacrifice pit is a good idea also if you got some spare gold. You will be happy with shades and possibly wyrms later. Get a temple of the damned also (try to hide it) and start the banshee adept training. As soon as you reach tier 2, be sure you get the Pl out fast because Cl alone can be a headhake if you get rushed and pushed against the wall.

Tier 3

At tier 3, Build another temple and continue on with banshees if you are going to fight meele units (try to calculate how many you need). Instead of building aboms, you will want to possess your ennemy's meat wall wich is way better. Make banshees and hide them deep into your base. It is important to maintain a surprise effect when doing banshees. Deactivate auto-cast and send a statue with your banshees to fill up their mana.
At this point you should have 2 statues with a depleated mana pool. If you are up against magic, it is a good idea to research Destroyer form and make a couple more statues. You do not need to morph them yet especially if they still have mana. Wait to see what you are up against and if needed, morph them.

4. Overall army covering

Crypt lord with Pit lord are devastating for most tier 1 units, mages and can also be good versus siege, especially mortars. Mass fiends, takes care of flying units. Banshees takes care of heavy ground meat(Grunts, Raiders, Aboms, Taurens, Knights and Bears most of the time). Lich tries to nuke heros to death with the help of aoe damage.

So, what units are left to make for your ennemy? Magic immune units like driads, breakers and destros most probably because they are immune to possess, empale and fire rain.

5. Entering the battle

When entering the battle it is best if your banshees are a surprise to your ennemy. Use Fire rain and then empale. This will make a decoy and give time for your banshees to possess their units. This is why the Cl/Pl combo is so good. It offers the best decoy there is for banshees to do the job. Usually, you will probably loose 1-2 banshees and possess a lot of units.

6. Specific opponents

Versus Orcs: You will probably need more towering to resist the orcs tier 2 push and the bm aco harrassing. The sacrifical pit is highly recommended versus Bm. When you have 4-5 master banshees ready, you can think about the win. Bring them out and possess riders and kodos if possible. Net heros and finish him off.

Versus Humans: Make a tight build around your mine to prevent harrassing. If you dont allow the human to make an expo, you will probably win. If you rush with Cl/Pl as soon as 2nd hero is out, he as good chances to loose if he as a weak defense. Counter Water elementals with some Destros later on. If he mass breakers, you can pull out a mixt of wagons with necs, ghouls, gargoyles.

Versus Undead: Mass fiends to discourage destros, gargs and wyrms and to put pressure if needed. Banshee AMS might do the trick later on versus 3 hero nuking combo and you might also want to possess 3-4 aboms.

Versus Night elf: Mass fiends to encourage bears. Possess the bears and you will most likely end up fighting versus a mass driads. Since Elf players often use panda, this might cause a bit of problem because fiends, ghouls and gargs are all good versus driads but weak against panda. I recommend the use of scrolls to compensate for this (1,2 or even 3). You can also try to make necs and wagons but this may also be your downfall if you dont have enough.

This is about it. Have fun and enjoy!

Comments are welcomed.

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2 years ago

Big stars represents five levels - This user is on level 5

Skutt

uuuuhm..

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2 years ago

fuckgg.net

But what if orc makes bm?

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2 years ago

JaMie

The Canadian flag says it all.
Azeroth players are known to be more innovative, I'll give you that, but this will never work vs average players.

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2 years ago

Necor

Still trying to figure out what empale is

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2 years ago

lensun

#2, ye IF...but its ok, they only use 99% of the time bm

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2 years ago

Big stars represents five levels - This user is on level 7

Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 7

anatase

idd BM would be much , much trouble .
Secondly , as soon as the NE gets his dryads ( and he forcefully will because of empale and rain of fire ) . You heroes won't stand long and won't be as useful as you would them to be and since you can't heal your fiends , it gets really risky imho

But it could work kinda well vs Human , as their units aren't that strong , as they often mass , just take care of MK ( no shit .)
Maybe in mirror as well .

Post some reps , would be nice to see what how it works .
More Warcraft , less Theorycraft :)

Holydamned sh**

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2 years ago

Moontracker

To answer all of you giving some feedback. First of all, as i said before, this build was proven effective in RT 2v2. As i have mentionned it, i played this build with over 65% of success. I have tried this in 1v1 but since i am not a Korean freak with Skyhigh APM (i do maintain over 150 APM but i dont reach near 300 as some people do) i could not prove it to be as efficient as classical 1v1 builds are. If some Gosu could try it out for at least 50 games to give a tendency it would be great. On the other hand, i can assure you that i have beaten a lot of gosus with higher APM than mine with this build.

- About wc3.petter's comment:

I dont understand what was your point. You start by talking about Bm and then, you talk about Am + potion.... Try clearing it up. But if i try a guess i bet you've ment Bm + potion = sad Dk. If that is the case then ill try this as an answer: Bm is a pain in the ass versus any build there is. At gosu levels, orc vs undead is the worst balanced match up ever with orcs winning over undead 60% of the time. Versus orc if you are going Cl instead of Dk, the main difference there will be is that you will absolutely need to upg to frost tower to avoid aco harrassing since you won't be able to compensate with the dk's coil to save your acolytes. Actually, playing versus orc, you already know what you will be going against 95% + of the time: Bm + Sh, Riders + Walkers, some kodos. You will also get pushed hard between tier 2 and 3 and will most likely need to get at least 1-2 nerub towers.

I dont really care about the bm taking a invulnerability potion. If i can posses at least 2-3 riders, i can net his Bm to death after the potion expires.

- About Jamie's comment:

This is actually working at top level in 2v2 rt. In 1v1 as i said earlyer, i did not perform enough in this class to prove its efficiency at gosu levels but it sure works fine versus average to pro levels.

About Necor's comment:

Empale is the magic you use with Cl that make spikes come out of the ground and stuns ennemies. Why empale? It gives you time for possession. When you research possession, you will most likely be at least level 3 with your Cl. At level 3, emaple stuns units for 3 sec and heros for 2 sec. It takes 4 sec to a banshee to possess 1 unit. This means that your opponent as a 1-2 sec window to take out your banshees. Also, banshees disable units when they start the possessing process. This means that your opponent will have less units to help him quickly deal with your banshees.

- About cyannuremagik's comment:

Bm is trouble versus every tecks and actually, i don't want to start a debate about this but from my point of view, Bm is still one of the less balanced hero the game as to offer so far. It won't be more trouble with this teck than it would be versus other Ud builds. Actually, if you can effectively possess 2 or more riders, this will be even better than everything else since you will be able to disable the Bm's WW ability and kill him (with empale and nets). Try finding a better idea for disabeling Bm with Ud.... you got none.

When you are playing versus ne, you will most likely end up playing versus draids as you've mentionned before. When this comes, Cl and Pl wont be effective versus his units anymore. But, before ending up playing versus mass driads, your opponent will most likely try to make at least 3-4 bears as every ne would do, with some archers. The archers you will see when you cross blades for the 1st time will be the last he will make since they will all die within second sthanks to aoe damage. Also,a gosu would not play without bears and this most likely because they will need rejuv for heros. If you can possess those bears, than afterwards since you know he will make driads, you already know how to counter him: Start making necs + wagons with crypt units (fiends, ghouls or gargs depending wich heros he as). The hardest to beat is the Dh panda combo. If he as a panda, crypt units will surely fall quickly due to panda fire breath attack. Don't fall into the trap and make mass aboms (unless you got tons of gold) since they are too clumsy and will get stuck in front of his base will falling 1 by 1. Make 1-2 aboms with disease cloud and stick with fiends. Since ghouls and gargs die to 1-2 fire breath, you will prefer to hang on to fiends and use anti-magic shell with your spare banshees. Make all your units immune to magic with AMS before you attack him. Then, you wont have trouble with panda and your friends > his driads. If is panda is low level, you might want to make mass ghouls or gargs since they are more effective versus driads but you will need to carry at least 2 scrolls of healing to compensate for the fire breath damage.

This build> most human builds. In a mirror match, you cannot rely a lot on possession with your banshees since ranged units like fiends are harder to possess. You will have to stick to mass fiends with some aboms and dest to have a better chance of success. I found out that the mirror matches where the hardest to deal with.

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2 years ago

Moontracker

This is not theorycraft, it actually works pretty damn well. I will send some replays soon to prove it. When i do, i will let you all know.

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2 years ago

Nbk_Orchid

I think this could be a nice strat for some matches in RT and then not so useful in others. I could see this failing easily to a decent NE & Orc team because your CL will be focused constantly and the elf will surely mass magic immune dryads, plus your Pit Lord will be hexed and ensnared anytime he tries to reign fire. On the other hand I think this could be a cool strat vs a NE UD team that is massing (which they will) or most other team combinations that wont be massing magic immune units or going all hero focus. Thanks for the write up. Interesting strat, hope i see it some time on online

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2 years ago

#10

anatase

i know about the bm , that's why i didn't tell more about that .

For the NE mu , idd he'll get bears but since they get both bears&dryad roughly at the same time it still sounds risky to me , but if he plays good enough he'll know about your banshee and will do his best to crush them down or to kill the possessed units .
Also , he could go dark ranger and silence your banshee as well as your heroes .
Seems to be the biggest danger out there .
Still , since possessing lower his army no matter what his reaction is , it can idd be valuable .

Since i didn't test the strat and since I had no opportunity to look @ some replays I can't speak much about the strat idd .

I think it can be valuable against NE if you play aggressive and try to harass the NE the more often you can , preventing him from going T2 or AOL .
As your heroes will notably have more HP than his and with the help of empale/fiends it could be really interesting in early game( you either end the game or take a big advantage ) .
Also magic shield from banshee is damn good against mana burn/bof combo

After that we all know late game is hardest part , so i'll wait for your rep :)

But keep up with inventing cool strats , that's always good to have some new stuff to play

Holydamned sh**

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2 years ago

#11

Necor

Yeah i was sarcastic it is IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIImpale not empale, but nevertheless this wont work in solo

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2 years ago

#12

Moontracker

If anyone is interested i just made a game with my smurf today showing the main idea of the build. For those interested, i can send this replay and other replays revealing this build. Be sure e-mail me (blind_fb@hotmail.com) and say you want replays and i will post them.

1st replay

"""""Matchup"""""" (I am Ud)

Game type ---- Rt 2v2
Races ---- Ud-Ne versus Ne-Orc
Map --- Tidewater glades

The night elf was a gosu and played Dh, Medusa with driads. The orc and Ne players where average. Orc played Bm, Sh with tauren and walkers. Ne played Potm archers, driads, dotts. Main heros where lvl 6 and over at the end of the game.

I got harrassed badly at the start because i neglected building a frost tower (wich i should've built). I always end up caught like this in 2v2 since i want to save my ressources for something else. My macro was quite average partially due to lack of sleep (just got my 1st baby) and a joint. Drugs make me forgot about sacrifical pit wich i should've had. My APM and micro have been quite average and i lost often my heros on top of that. Banshees followed by necs turned once again the tide of the game and this is where it is interesting.

Globaly, you might end thinking: Hell, this teck is not so great after all he almost lost. But, if you neglect the fact that i have played poorly on micro and got totally owned with hero harrass, you will see how this teck can turn the tide of a game when properly played. I would be curious to see this teck in the hand of a gosu player since as i've mentionned i can get up to 200 APM but i dont reach 300 like top freaks.This game is won over with ressources.

Reply to Necor:

This actually works in solo versus quite a lot of imba matchups. I can send some replays if you want. Used as an occasionnal weapon by a Ud player this can become quite handy. It can actually make miracles. I will try to make a couple of 1v1 games versus different races to show the potential.

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2 years ago

#13

anatase

can't you upload it somewhere ? like on megaupload or attached file on some rdm forum ?

Holydamned sh**

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2 years ago

#14

PhiliBIRD

upload it and post a link. and if you want some good feedback on your strat, make sure to let me know via guestbook. :-D

Tell no secrets, show no weakness.

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2 years ago

#15

Moontracker

I uploaded 1 replay on http://tft.replayers.com

thats.right(NE)+idiot.wtf(O)-vs-FlawlessUndead(UD)+514paranoids(NE)

If you guys want more replays with specific races and matchup let me know.
This shows an idea of the build.

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2 years ago

#16

Moontracker

Uploaded 1 more replay. Search for FlawlessUndead and you will find both.

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2 years ago

#17

PhiliBIRD

um. no.

just no. /fail

Tell no secrets, show no weakness.

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2 years ago

#18

Moontracker

I wonder how you can tell it fails. I reached lvl34 in rt 2v2 with this build and was over 65% while playing it. Since you're not convinced yet i will be playing some solo games so you can change your mind about it. Do not forget that i dont have an average APM over 150 like most gosu do.

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2 years ago

#19

anatase

well i thought i was 1o1 based strategy that's why i was skeptical .
But can be fun to play your tech with friends on AT

Holydamned sh**

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2 years ago

#20

JaMie

I watched the replay out of curiosity and your opponents, especially the orc, was below average.
They scouted your expand stupidly late and you and the orc lost your heroes so many times.

You had almost lost at 13 minutes but for some reason the orc retreated for no reason.

I'm not convinced until I see it working vs a top player in solo.

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