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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ orc vs ud
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5 months ago

Lottery
orc vs ud (1816 reads, 34 replies)
i often lose vs ud.
i have a good early game ( mostly lvl 3 fs or bm) then i make a t2 expansion and creep my tc or sh at lvl3. but then the ud often attack my expansion so that i have to cancel it. after a while, the ud get a frostwyrm and then i have problems so fight against this...
thx for answer
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5 months ago
#1

HappyGeilCriticaL

   2
hehe i had that problem too. But not exactly the same. my problem was when the ud harassed me with 2 or 3lvl dk and 6-7fiends with late tech...anwyay. Why don't you try to get some bats/wyverns. And the true is that you have not let your opponents get wyrms, you have to finish the game before with 3 lvl bm and 3lvl tc or sh. I think tc is more useful if you get him to lvl3 with his stomp and his ayra helps a lot. you can kill fiends faster.
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5 months ago
#2

031CkA

   1
Lol he means more usefull =), ya i had the exact same problem, frosties just raped me, anyways what u need to do is just keep a watch out on him, try to keep him from gettin frosties, if you expo try to hit his base then run, hit and run, that way u can stall for expo to be done. As for the frosties, i want to say BATS BATS BATS, they are very cheap and they are awesome AA, VS ud its very nice to have TC for aura, But a FS with cl would rape those frosties, so if its a big map an u think he ganna get frosties id go with FS instead of TC, TC just pwns them ground guys. If you get him stuck in his base, i would actully build a few towers around him then just kinda pick at him while u get more expos adn train up other units, just carefull not to let him out mass you.
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5 months ago
#3

SoI

   2
I wouldn't exactly say that FS rapes frosties unless i really missed something BIG in the latest patch notes. Bats and wind riders is both ok against frosties, but make sure you take advantage of the time it takes for your opponent to get them by keeping map control and expanding etc.
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5 months ago
#4

Lottery

   1
ok thx but sometimes when i try to attack his base and he is in the base i make hit and run but often lose a unit ( e.g. raider) cause of the slow from the tower and coil/nova. i know i can use the speedscroll but but after 10 sec it will be the same problem again...
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5 months ago
#5

SeventySix

   1
I often use Headhunters to counter wyrms or destroyers, especially when I have expo for some time, enough to get low upkeep, it's easy to mass them, they are not expensive and train time is low. Ud must go for abos then, but Kodo with scroll of speed > abomination.

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5 months ago
#6

HappyGeilCriticaL

   2
#4 well that's not a problem cuz raiders have ensnare and that helps a lot for kill fiends before get burrowed. But frost tower's dmg is so low. and tc's stomp stops coil/nova for 4secs. and i think with speedscroll too you can micro units. Anyway just watch replays ....theory can't help you a lot.
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5 months ago
#7

GpZ)Zork(

 (Gosubet Manager WC3 )   18
why not trying to go for t3 w/o expo. just make bm or fs first (i recommend bm), then tc and sh, with 1 beastiary and a war mill before start upgrading to t3. get 1-2 kodos, and some raiders. at t3 make your 3rd hero (sh or tc, depends on which's your second hero), buy orb for the bm, research the war drums upgrade and make troll berserkers.
i used to play a lot with staying on t2 and expanding, but lately i'm playing with t3 and i feel much better. try it.

p.s: if you want replays, check Lyn's, he often does this strategy.
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5 months ago
#8

Kenpachi_Sama

   1
just make sure u kill him at t2 with raiders/dems/bm/fs then u have to worry bout none of dat....
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5 months ago
#9

Lotus

   1
if u lose as a orc vs undead ur skill-lvl must be pretty low (no offense)... depending on the map u most either Cj with FS or bm... hit acos with sc during tech and u probably will be able to put up an expo.. make some hit n run while u gain money advantadge JUST MAKE SURE HE CAN'T FREEFARM!! (dotA expression^^).... do some counterair vs the dests (bats until he upgrades armor 2. time then eirher wr or hh's depending on unitcombo from both players... make a burrow at ur expo to prevent the ghouls from raping ur peons while in fights and creeping... in this way I cant really see you losing :P ofc its not auto-win but close to.... (orc wins 68% vs Undead on pro lvl and even more in semipro... )
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4 months ago
#10

Anosov

   1
I have exatly the same problem with UD, they sometimes go for fast tech to tier 3 and defend their base with towers + spiders, then they go for wyrms. When they mass 4-5 wyrms is GG, i tried HHs, but i have lost 12 berserkers against 3 dragons and i killed just one with focus fire!!! Maybe i should try raiders + taurens, or bats, but i need two or three bats to destroy one wyrm, and i think it is a bit unfitting
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4 months ago
#11

itsRaining-

   2
#9 YES !

ORC PLAYERS, sad! this mu clearly favors ORC. You can make bm, or fs, u can take sh or tc, u can mass air, u can grunt raider, u can expo, u can t2 or t3. Whatever u make its damn hard for the ud. PLS, watch replays where ud always loses this imba mu >.<

whatever the orc does, its always hard for the ud, if u lose this mu as orc, u just are alot worse player than the ud
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4 months ago
#12

KnekteN

   1
#11, agreed... I'm so sick of hearing about orcs who actually struggles with this matchup! For instance, about one fifth of my laddergames vs orc, there is some NOOB who COMPLAINS about this matchup, calling out "IMBA UNDEAD! OMG! NOOB! NO MICRO, JUST COILNOVA!"... God, save me from the nooborcs -_-"
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4 months ago
#13

Anosov

   1
I'm not meaning that UD>Orcs, i think that in the early and in the medium game orcs have the upper hand, my question is: what can i do if UD player go for wyrms in the late game?
Futhermore, i know i'm a bit noob, but bnet is not only for gosu players.
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4 months ago
#14

KnekteN

   1
Bats could work, although armor upgrades solves + a skilled player can easily web a couple of bats before they attack. A way to counter this is using tc to stomp fiends before sending in the bats, although this takes abit of micro and timing to pull off, but still fairly easy and VERY effective.

If you're really struggling with UD's going wyrms, then I suspect you always letting it go to lategame, so either..

A) Finish the games quicker (Always be on the lookout for creepjacks, if the UD slips up just once and forgets the tp, you can finish a game with one creepjack) or..

B) Get an expo up (Use the hit and run strat that someone up there mentioned), get TC with stomp (If you went BM first, then harass with the BM while creeping the TC up to lvl 3) and get a real tasty 80 pop army with 2 heroes, 3-4 raiders, a couple of kodos and the rest wyvs, (which should leave you with about 12 wyvs I think) seeing as stomp + wyv focusfire pretty much rapes any ground in the game, and wyvs deal 125% (Or 150%, not sure) dmg to wyrms, so they go down real fast too.
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4 months ago
#15

harstem

   1
#14 True but air is easy to rape with 6 crypt fiends and mass ghouls and if you only go mass air the ground units will just start focussing hero because they cant make air what means you will have to spend a lot of money on tp´s andhealing stuff. that should be no problem with an expo. If your undead enemy tries gargoyles to counter your wind riders. just 5-6 bats and u own all.
GL&HF
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4 months ago
#16

KnekteN

   1
6 fiends and mass ghouls doesnt beat 12 wyvs... The army that I described on the post above is like, the PERFECT anti-undead army. I don't think I have EVER beaten that army, with TC at least lvl 3 and 12 wyvs. And so what if the ground units focus your heroes? Invu pot gives 7 seconds of untouchableness, and in those 7 seconds the wyvs have pretty much raped everything the poor UD player has to fight with. A full army of wyvs kills just about every unit in the game in 1 volley, so what the hell can you do to counter it? Nothing, thats what... Imba fucking orc :P

Trust me, recipe for winning: TC>Expo>Mass wyvs=GG NO RE
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4 months ago
#17

Anosov

   1
You are right, i played a few match against ud, in the last match my opponent went for abo+destroyers+ spiders with DK and lich and i simply went for grunts + raiders with BM and TC, i owned him, and his micro was better then mine (both of us were noobs, obviously, i'have about 40 apm, i know this is horrible!)
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4 months ago
#18

mxprez.kebby

   2
When playing orc/ud the orc has always had a wellknown advantage, and countering wyrms is not hard at all! This is my playstle vs ud..

Creep ure bm up to lvl 2, at ths point ud is a bit delayed and u can buy some boots of speed and start harrassing as much as u can. Start teching (uasally after u've gotten ure 2nd grunt and keep gettin out 2 additional grunts s u got 4. While harrassing u can creep some easy green spots with ur grunts trying to hit lvl 3... When u got 4 grunts u can start building a warmill and your 3rd burrow. Heal up ure units and if bm is not lvl 3 at this point creep another spot. Lvl 3 is crucial for good scouting and harrassing. I recommend u get Tc at this point and 2 beastarys. Creep a brown spot and get ure tc to lvl 2. Start pumping out 2-3 wyws and continue to creep ure tc up to lvl 3...

When he hits lvl 3 start attacking. Buy a Dust Of Appearence just in case. Wyws are great units which does a huge amount of dmg towards wyws an ghouls if u focus ieach one of them. Get a expo up and start pumping out wyws. As long as they're supported by some ground units they're jus great ;P

Aroud 3 raiders/2 kodos/mass wyws and u'll be allright. They counter wyrms fantastic. Make sure u tech armor and dmg to lvl 2 and ar that point just make sure he doesn't get a expo up and harrass him as much as u can!
Ure heroes will grown in lvl and when ure tc hits lvl 4 + it's jus imba gg for u ;P

glhfgg





there wasn't anything that i could do...
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4 months ago
#19

mxprez.kebby

   2
When playing orc/ud the orc has always had a wellknown advantage, and countering wyrms is not hard at all! This is my playstle vs ud..

Creep ure bm up to lvl 2, at ths point ud is a bit delayed and u can buy some boots of speed and start harrassing as much as u can. Start teching (uasally after u've gotten ure 2nd grunt and keep gettin out 2 additional grunts s u got 4. While harrassing u can creep some easy green spots with ur grunts trying to hit lvl 3... When u got 4 grunts u can start building a warmill and your 3rd burrow. Heal up ure units and if bm is not lvl 3 at this point creep another spot. Lvl 3 is crucial for good scouting and harrassing. I recommend u get Tc at this point and 2 beastarys. Creep a brown spot and get ure tc to lvl 2. Start pumping out 2-3 wyws and continue to creep ure tc up to lvl 3...

When he hits lvl 3 start attacking. Buy a Dust Of Appearence just in case. Wyws are great units which does a huge amount of dmg towards wyws an ghouls if u focus ieach one of them. Get a expo up and start pumping out wyws. As long as they're supported by some ground units they're jus great ;P

Aroud 3 raiders/2 kodos/mass wyws and u'll be allright. They counter wyrms fantastic. Make sure u tech armor and dmg to lvl 2 and ar that point just make sure he doesn't get a expo up and harrass him as much as u can!
Ure heroes will grown in lvl and when ure tc hits lvl 4 + it's jus imba gg for u ;P

glhfgg





there wasn't anything that i could do...
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4 months ago
#20

mxprez.kebby

   2
When playing orc/ud the orc has always had a wellknown advantage, and countering wyrms is not hard at all! This is my playstle vs ud..

Creep ure bm up to lvl 2, at ths point ud is a bit delayed and u can buy some boots of speed and start harrassing as much as u can. Start teching (uasally after u've gotten ure 2nd grunt and keep gettin out 2 additional grunts s u got 4. While harrassing u can creep some easy green spots with ur grunts trying to hit lvl 3... When u got 4 grunts u can start building a warmill and your 3rd burrow. Heal up ure units and if bm is not lvl 3 at this point creep another spot. Lvl 3 is crucial for good scouting and harrassing. I recommend u get Tc at this point and 2 beastarys. Creep a brown spot and get ure tc to lvl 2. Start pumping out 2-3 wyws and continue to creep ure tc up to lvl 3...

When he hits lvl 3 start attacking. Buy a Dust Of Appearence just in case. Wyws are great units which does a huge amount of dmg towards wyws an ghouls if u focus ieach one of them. Get a expo up and start pumping out wyws. As long as they're supported by some ground units they're jus great ;P

Aroud 3 raiders/2 kodos/mass wyws and u'll be allright. They counter wyrms fantastic. Make sure u tech armor and dmg to lvl 2 and ar that point just make sure he doesn't get a expo up and harrass him as much as u can!
Ure heroes will grown in lvl and when ure tc hits lvl 4 + it's jus imba gg for u ;P

glhfgg


sry for doublepost


there wasn't anything that i could do...
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