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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ How can orc defend hu militia tower rush
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6 months ago

CrazyBolas
How can orc defend hu militia tower rush (1192 reads, 22 replies)
I'm gettin owned by this every time someone does it to me. They speed build a lumber mill and militia rush three peons to my base that immediately start making towers while my altar and barracks are still buildling. They upgrade their towers and my units pop out about the same time they have three scout towers in my base in range of all my buildings.

If i attack the towers with my hero and two grunts, they repair them with peons. Normally I've built burrows behind my buildings, so these are out of range, is this wrong? If I rush a lumber mill and put up defensive towers, these turn out to be either out of range of their towers or they get blown up while still in construction. How do you beat this rush?

I wish I could upload the replay of my last game and you'd see how bad it was.... and maybe show me what I did wrong.

I tried attacking their peons with my peons as they were putting up the towers, that didn't kill the peons fast enough to stop the towers.

My base gets trashed before I get anywhere near getting catapults.

Which hero is best for this defense? I was thinking blademaster so that he could windwalk by the towers and try to destroy mining peons at the enemy base.

Don't just say "watch replays" without providing a link to the appropriate one. I've watched plenty of replays and haven't seen this strat defended against.

Someone help, I think if there's an insta-lose strat available for human to ALWAYS beat orc, then the game's imbalanced completely and not worth playing.
This post was edited by a forum moderator @ 6 months ago
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6 months ago
#1

myMYM.MrOw

   9
moved to strat forums...
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6 months ago
#2

CrazyBolas

   1
2008-05-17 18:59:59, MrOw wrote:
moved to strat forums...


Ah sorry, I thought I was posting this in the strat forum, must have hit the wrong key.
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6 months ago
#3

CrazyBolas

   1
I tried to upload this replay, not sure if it worked or not. If possible, please post or link the replay for this game to this thread please, moderators.
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6 months ago
#4

milkismyblood

   1
first focus on these 3 peasants with Farseer, grunt and wolves. than it won't be hard to crash towers. build voodoo lounge after barracs
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6 months ago
#5

pissluffarn

   1
i suspect this is on small 1v1 maps like Echo or something like that..
then u should early scout and if u suspect tower rush like this u have to remodule ure base a littebit.. for instance earlier shop burrows should be in the same line as ure bulings, not infron and not back..

if u get ure burrow up in a perfect location he wont be able to make any towers and wont have an altar, then u just simply windwalk ure blademaster over to his base..

BUT dont be to agresive, remeber he can still make milita, chop one downwhen he makes militia u move back a bit. he starts getting recource again and u get another.. pick of his peasents that are constructing buildings.. ex: altar
thing is when hum towers are being build they have verry low hp. so 1 shot from a burrow will make it instants cancel. :))

GL HF
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6 months ago
#6

CrazyBolas

   1
2008-05-17 20:58:21, areyoudeadyet wrote:
i suspect this is on small 1v1 maps like Echo or something like that..
then u should early scout and if u suspect tower rush like this u have to remodule ure base a littebit.. for instance earlier shop burrows should be in the same line as ure bulings, not infron and not back..


This most recent time was on Lost Temple, the two previous times it was done to me was on Echo.

I usually scout with the peon that makes the altar. This is what Grubby does to scout when I watch his replays.

At the point his peons reach my base and start making towers, my altar is only halfway done. How early am I supposed to scout?!?

Also... I see the peons building the towers. I know he's doing it to me. Now what? It's too late to rearrange the base at that time.

I do like the idea of putting the burrows in line with the buildings, I'll try that vs human in the future to see if it helps.
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6 months ago
#7

itsRaining-

   2
Lol if u were towerrushed like that in LT, mh enemy rofl. Just always make fs, focus peons and u should be fine
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6 months ago
#8

CrazyBolas

   1
2008-05-17 23:35:27, itsRaining- wrote:
Lol if u were towerrushed like that in LT, mh enemy rofl. Just always make fs, focus peons and u should be fine


Watch the replay before you comment like that.
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6 months ago
#9

milkismyblood

   1
2008-05-17 23:51:34, CrazyBolas wrote:
Watch the replay before you comment like that.

so where is this replay?..
by the way, your hero and 1st grunt appear when your enemy has 3 guard towers and 3 peasants. right? so kill peasants with 4 units u have: farseer, grunt, 2 wolves. he wont's be able to repair his towers, and you have some time before new militia will come. build voodoo lounge smwhere not in range of towers to heal grunts and hero.
mb u lost just because didn't kill peasants?
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6 months ago
#10

CrazyBolas

   1
2008-05-18 00:18:08, milkismyblood wrote:
2008-05-17 23:51:34, CrazyBolas wrote:
Watch the replay before you comment like that.

so where is this replay?..
by the way, your hero and 1st grunt appear when your enemy has 3 guard towers and 3 peasants. right? so kill peasants with 4 units u have: farseer, grunt, 2 wolves. he wont's be able to repair his towers, and you have some time before new militia will come. build voodoo lounge smwhere not in range of towers to heal grunts and hero.
mb u lost just because didn't kill peasants?


I was making blademaster at the time, so your advice is cancel blademaster and make farseer, correct?

I'm wondering if it would be useful to take a peon or two to attack also, to help absorb some of the hits from the tower while the otehr units take 'em down. I'm thinking not, but it might be worth trying.

I submitted the replay to this web site, I'm assuming it won't get posted, but I've requested it to be posted.
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6 months ago
#11

cNam

   1
You could always use a third-part uploader like speedyshare, rapidshare etc.. :)
Then we might be able to help you out.
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6 months ago
#12

mxprez.kebby

   2
haha, obviously ure new in this game. By the time the towers start to pop up, u'll have a grunt/bm/fs some seconds b4 all towers are upgraded. Focus the workers and get a shop up fast, then just produce grunts as b4 and and just take down the towers, not a big deal...
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6 months ago
#13

Mumen

   1
if i see bm as orc hero i always do tower rush with footies and am, in 90% works perfect. Fs as first hero= no way to tr.
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6 months ago
#14

KaoriStomp

   1
Just cancel your rax and build a burrow in range of the towers. And he's not talking about a TR with them having a hero.
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6 months ago
#15

Mumen

   1
#up yes i know. But if we are talking about trs i have gaven him my tips=)
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6 months ago
#16

by_the_moon

   1
I am ORC and was tower rushed on EI while my altar is half way done...
The best way to win is to use FS and one or two grunt and immediatly go to his base, kill his peasants there and he will leave, u r gonna lost barrack and altar, but nevermind, u win easily... pull out few peons to build Voodo Longue at middle and he will say GG! try it out... I don't have repaly here, but i win on that way...
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6 months ago
#17

StenGah

   2
#16 then fix ur replay
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6 months ago
#18

carn

   1
"Also... I see the peons building the towers. I know he's doing it to me. Now what? It's too late to rearrange the base at that time."

Just looking at numbers i get the following:
Burrow takes 50 seconds to built, scout tower 25 sec, if rushbuilt by 3 peasants 12 seconds, guard tower takes 50 seconds. So if he starts 3 towers and you react instantly you could build a burrow that finishes 15-20 seconds before the towers finish.

So if you are currently building something it might be worth to cancel it immediately and start 1-2 burrows inside tower range. Together with you're hero this could work. But just an idea, i never tried so.

Edit:
Scout towers have light armor and 300/360 hp and 0 or 2 armor. a fully packed burrow would deal something like 50 damage per second to a scout tower. So having burrow finished 15 seconds before towers upgrade could be enough to destroy 1 tower even with repairing peasants.
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6 months ago
#19

CrazyBolas

   1
Hmm... I didn't realize that burrows do more damage the more peons are in them.... that makes sense, I'll have to load up burrows a bit more in the future then.

I like the strat of putting two burrows in range of their towers.

I tried the "rush his peons with your hero + two grunts" in the game i"m talking about.. but... it was Lost Temple, and I guessed wrong that he came from the north and not the south... and I lost a grunt to neutral creeps before I figured out that he came from the south and not the north.. and by the time I did get to his base, he had towers up there, too. :(

Rush with heros works on Echo, if you know where he is.. but not on LT, where he gets lucky guessing where you are (i'm not gonna say map hack, I think he was actually lucky) and you get unlucky (I thought he came from top, not bottom, and I don't hack).

I did get some very useful tips though, I'll try 'em next time someone does this to me. Thanks a ton, guys.

I watched the replay... with his first five peons, he makes 3 of them militias and charges the enemy base, and puts two on gold. Then he makes more peons and has one make a lumber mill, only like 3 on gold, the rest on lumber... it's crazy but he doesn't get to five gold peons for a long time. All out early tower rush. And he puts the three towers in range of not just altar or barracks, but your town h all. And builds a fourth and fiifth tower after the first three finish. so you guys saying "lose a barracks or altar but still win" you also need to figure on possibly losing a town hall as well.
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6 months ago
#20

SteniS

   8
@ CrazyBolas:

Here is a great strategy guide on how to defend against a Human tower push. It's written by none other than Manuel "Grubby" Schenkhuizen himself.

http://www.esportsglobal.com/articles/111
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