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Forums \ WarCraft 3 forum \ Other Races Caught Up With UD
1 year ago

CreamLuNaR
Other Races Caught Up With UD (650 reads, 18 replies)
If you've been paying attention recently the general feeling is that this patch is dominated by humans and nightelves and undeads being the worst race this patch. My theory of why the other races are so ahead of undeads these days are that their strats have finally caught up to the undeads overall level. If you look at it this way, earlier in WC3.TFT humans standard strat vs all races were rifle/caster AM/MK. Human expos were never seen as a standard strategy every game like it is now. It was just a popular strat that was easy to use and considered to be the best for the race. Because of this undeads reigned supreme over humans for years until human players started to tap the true human power, and saw their power lied with towers/expos. More diverse units like knigts, tanks, and gyro copters became standard in todays playing style.
Nightelves in earlier patch's weren't accustomed to using aow creeping and tavern hero usage. Now strats like these are standard now virtually every game versus undead.
Unlike nightelves and humans that took a bit of time to develope undeads had almost mastered every strat early on. With great innovative players like MadFrog and Sweet undeads took early advantage of gargoyle units in games. Fiends were a common strat against most races and the mass destroyer strat is widely popular among undead user today as it was in the past. Undead players early on took advantage of all the races units and heroes early on before the other races started doing it aswell. People may think undead casters were never used but the beast master, fiend, and caster strat by Sweet is a testiment to that.
Overall I think the undeads reign is over because of the years of innovative thinking by the many great players that play their races. While undeads may not have their great authority over the other races in the past, their still a force to be reckoned with! It's up until now that people are considering human to be an imba race, when 2-3 years ago if you said that people would laugh and tell you their the weakest. It just all comes down to years of each race finally blossoming into form. Whether hideous, or beautiful, your the judge.

Hope you enjoyed reading this!

-Cream[LuNaR]
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1 year ago
#1

MeRliin

   1
nice !!!!
I think this is very true, until the next patch :-)
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1 year ago
#2

ronnimbl

   3
I can only agree, that the other races have found counters to the undead strategies. I think undead need to develop new strategies yet again, to turn into a strong race. For instance you see that Fov keeps trying new strategies off vs human. Fiends is also getting more popular vs elf. T2 push with necros / siege against FE, is also more and more common. When the new patch come, some stuff will also be changed. I just think that the undead massing ghouls / gargs, and the mass destoyer strategy isnt as strong as it used to be, because the other race have found counters to it.
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1 year ago
#3

Genie

 (WarCraft Editor)   13
Very nice read mate. :) Keep it coming!
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1 year ago
#4

MeatY

   4
well written, as #3 said, keep it coming :). imo the problem is that UD has pretty much innovated every possible inch of undead soil that might actually work, possibly, we need to use our old strategies again, so that the other races must adapt to us yet again, but hell d'no just shooting ideas here :). Nice read!
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1 year ago
#5

Kurdran

   4
Nice read :)
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1 year ago
#6

CreamLuNaR

   1
Thank you all for your generous, and manner feedback :D
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1 year ago
#7

GpZ)Zork(

 (Gosubet Manager WC3 )   18
Nice and true :]
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1 year ago
#8

GpZ)Zork(

 (Gosubet Manager WC3 )   18
sorry for the double post -.-
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1 year ago
#9

UD being ahead of the other races... This must have been in the dawn of TFT because I don't remember them ever being ahead (maybe when destro orb was bugged?).

Take for example, UD vs. ORC match up. This one has always been viewed as slanted towards the orc's side. Maybe it wasn't always this way, but in the past few patches (where ensnare duration was just crazy XD) they have given undead a very hard time.

The UD vs NE has always been a touch-and-go match up. It was kind of in favor for the undead a patch ago when good NE players was still vulnerable to 2-crypt ghoul rush is some maps but NE's now are more careful. This match was a nightmare for the undead some patches ago when Stone Form was bugged (stone gargs aren't able to convert back sometimes) and the Pandaren Brewmaster Haze spell was overpowered (it has a much stronger slow effect at lv 1).

The UD vs HUM matchup was nice for undead before towers and the Paladin strat started going strong. Now, HUs have been more sucessful in building an expo (though not without peasant loss) and the Paladin harass is just not nice for the undead even if you have good base build.

There have been recent popularization UD strats such as Frost Armor(more fiend, later tech also) against orc and Panda First/DR-Naga-Fiend against a Pala-First but you'll only see those against those strats.

The main problem with UD is that they cannot be as "flexible" in their strats as other races so they have a hard time dealing wtih current trends of play. Also, you know everyone just seems good against undead these days .
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1 year ago
#10

versago

 (Replay management - SC)   8
UD needs to use casters more often vs Orcs.
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1 year ago
#11

spirit.BW.TX

   4
I think all UD would like to use the caster if they wouldnt realy be usefull like others. If u try casters vs Orc, he will do a spiritlounge till he saw your temple :( So Banshees...hm no! Dispell! Take over with Banshee? Hm no...ensnare ftw! The only combo I used to play UD caster is:
Crypt Grave Zig 4ghoul tech (no race is faster) -late hero (cl) fiends, necros with unholy rage and wyrm. If u do good in early u got good chance to win. Ever used Frenzy wyrms? Towers dont stand a chance against it :) So if for example Elf reach t3 with 4-5 dryades u will have 2 wyrms, 5-6 necros, 4 fiends and maybe mw! Funny :) Work vs Orc vs Elf vs Hu but not mirror :(
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1 year ago
#12

Compact description of undead's weakness (by my side).

Undead race has some weak vulnerable sides: 1. tech-destruction and unsafe base, 2. poor macro possibility, 3. no big list of globally different possible strategies.

1. Uds are very vulnerable against tech-destruction. If opponent is HUM or NE, they can acquire 3 times more gold then ud in same time (one expand + no acolytes). If opponent is ORC and he gets very little advantage in early game (which is so easy due the well known unbalance), then he will never lose even if UD has more good micro-macro controlling, because he can begin "going to destroy UD's base" process. One building+tp, one more + tp, one more + tp. It works in many maps and in many situations. Not always, but we all can remember many games like that, where ud can't do nothing.

2. For example: IMO for UDs the most easy match-up is against NE, but good UD can win NE if he has more powerful micro and NE plays standard, that is UD can predict his next move. In other way UD got lose. Why? UD has no big list of choices in every case of game and against every strategy changes of opponent.

3. I can't remember any UD strategy globally different from other races by his macro.
UDs can't play like human (mass towers+expands, impressive hero combo versus all, easy defense, very easy micro/macro versus any mass...), can't play like NEs (spread base + safe expand, tavern usage + secure future, unpredicted moves, easy unit saving, easy anti-casting without changing army type, no need for 3-th tier in most of games) and can't play like ORCs (perfect anti ground mass: FS + TC, anti-fortified armor destruction: rider, good base harassment abilities, no need for 3-th tier in most of games). Only one advantage UD has: Coil+Nova beautiful combination, but it's counters very easy: invul potion, staff, healing potions, 33% hell-reduction ^^, units with big HP...

Waiting for new patch. Go FoV, beat them all !!!

Thanks for reading and sorry for bad English.
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1 year ago
#13

re.Sacred

   3
Don't know how it was done, but the post above posted by me :)
Maybe moders can fix that? Thanks.
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1 year ago
#14

CreamLuNaR

   1
bizarro @.@;;
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1 year ago
#15

thug)chazz

   6
great job mate ... there is a lot of truth in your statement... 1-2 years ago UDs were on the very top of the game :/ just their strats got old :) thats all :)
it was great watching CL + DK + fiends and casters vs Orc ..
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1 year ago
#16

balder

   4
I have always wondered why they don't but blight and use it to hide buildings far away from their base and then surprice ur opponent =) For example on big maps lige gw or tm, build a temple of damned far away so the opponents never sees it and then mass necros or something could be awesome..
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1 year ago
#17

mephiztopheles

   6
#13 Timed out session while posting it :P
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1 year ago
#18

re.Sacred

   3
#17 ah, understood. Thanks a lot.
BTW: Nice signature you have ^^
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