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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ Help with Orc vs. UD
1 year ago

n4th_sr33
Help with Orc vs. UD (1599 reads, 14 replies)
I know this is supposedly Orc's best matchup but for some reason its my worst.
Against NE my tier 1 grunt fs rush w/ cataapult&tower if needed usually makes quick work of my opponent
Against Human I can usually either BM or FS harass w/ grunts and few HH and I almost always win in the first 15 minutes (and lose if its longer)
Against Orc i just creep fast as hell and get shaman for purge on grunts and bloodlust. usually FS/SH and I am fine.
Against UD, I try to either BM harass, wyvern tech (but i have 3-4 grunts in tier1-2) OR FS grunt, double tech, tauren/spirit walker/TC

whenever i do the former, I always kill his DH at lvl1 but its not as much of an advantage as I thought it would be; I keep pressing and with my few grunts creep as i double tech to wyvern, but he usually kills me while I'm teching/making Wyverns. I am doing this as fast as possible

whenever I do the latter, he gets banshees and possesses my Tauren before I can kill them; defended by mass skelle meat wall (necro defended w/ ghouls/fiends and hero). also fuck CoilNova. seriously fuck that. I get owned by it all the time. far seer-- dead, plus my grunts are damaged even more.

what the **** DO I DO ZOMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGggg I AM NOT GOSUUUUUU
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1 year ago
#1

SoI

   2
I think there is a thread about this that is not more then a few weeks old, try check that out.
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1 year ago
#2

n4th_sr33

   1
wow i must be bad because i see its supposed to be rigged in orc favor, lol. idk what to do though, their heroes are just too strong....

i mean, i can beat any human/NE/orc of my skill level (and i can win some OvO against players that are overall better than me) but I cannot even beat noob UD. i have no idea what I am doing wrong. I guess the problem is the first battle i have with them their DK is lvl3 and doesnt die, and their fiends just get healed...
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1 year ago
#3

SoI

   2
letting the DK get to level 3 ealy on really hurts, try getting the BM first and be on his arse and steal creep kills with WW strike and just be generally annoying.

At T2 it's really nice to try to go for an early expo. Against alot of fiends, get raiders/grunts and TC stomp and it should be in your favour.

If you scout necros you really need a spirit lodge and get uppgraded spirit walkers for dispel while maybe Wyws focus down necs. I rarely encounter this though.

For possesion raiders net stop channeling so if your fast enough (four seconds) you can stop it with an equal number of raiders.
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1 year ago
#4

Marek

   2
#3 Summed it up nicely. Just gotta be careful with that early expo.
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1 year ago
#5

It seems like you're just having bad luck. If you're a middle-tier player, could I reccomend trying the following?

Banshee + Necrowagon more or less requires maxed out casters to be effective, which is very late game. And if your fasttech gets scouted out and rushed, you will, of course, die.

BM > TC, Gruntapult and Wyverns is my first reaction. Of course, keep scouting, and harass. Ghouls and Acolytes both have low HP, and your BM should be able to kill one or two before a DK shows up. The BM's job, of course, is threefold: hurting their economy, usually tying up their hero from a creep or a harass, and scouting. Of course, if you catch them upgrading early, then make them pay for it and rush them. The worst thing that (should) happen is your BM loses a little bit of health, and you make him waste his hero's / workers' time.

Casters seem risky just because of destroyers, and undead T3 can outright end the orcs if they're not careful. I reccomend trying to end with Gruntapult and Wyverns in T2, with a regular slowtech / expand as you upgrade your hall.
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1 year ago
#6

n4th_sr33

   1
before i get TC 2nd hero, i have problems with mass fiends/DK. i will try BM harass DK next time instead of my usual BM kill aco's which for some reason does not set him back as much as i expected; he still ends up with a shit ton of fiends ('he') being more than one UD opponent lol.
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1 year ago
#7

thug)chazz

   6
move attack :) when u get an early fiend + DK rush :) just micro ..... attack, run out of your base... atack again and run, heal and attack , repair burrows and keep attack and run :/ when there is no mana for coil push with all you can :) take out even peon with speed scroll :) the ud sucker is forced to run :) loosing 1-2 grunts is not a big deal :) GL
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1 year ago
#8

zalost

   2
i sorta got a hang of wc now and i hope my anwers alright, o.o
in orc vs undead i almost always face crypt fiends mass of em, so i just go grunts and get the foot speed in the voodoo lounge, what your saying im guessing instead of going tauren how about just put down another rax and mass more grunts or beserkers? and if your farseer is getting raped maybe you should like use him early game only and when it comes to late game make another hero your main instead, try going shaman and get bloodlust and witchdoctor with heal ward, or be cheap and lay down stasis wards when the battles going just for added effect =D? gl man i hate this mu to >_<
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1 year ago
#9

SoI

   2
Getting bloodlust and witchdoctors is pretty much begging for a mass destro push.
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1 year ago
#10

n4th_sr33

   1
yeah i want to end this tier1-2

preferably tier1 :)

in my OvH if i win, its always tier1-2 (and OvH is my 2nd best matchup)
vs NE i almost always win tier1 (tis my best MU)
OvO i always win tier 2-3 late game
OvUD...idk yet lol so far i have lost unless the opponent is a noob. i am fairly new to this old game, just got it a month ago, but read up a lot about it. it seems that grunts>fiends. I guess my micro isn't good enough? but i can out micro mass hunts, which is how I almost always win OvNE if we are both at similar skill lvl....

i find it hard to harass DK at start, though others say its easy ????
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1 year ago
#11

Syn.Fortune

   1
I feel you, I usually dont send my BM right away to harass his base either. I creep 2 places or so (depends on map) with my BM, quickly heal and send my BM to scout/harass his creeping while sending my grunts to weak places to creep or sending them to harass with the BM, depends on my instinct.

Early T2 im walking around with my TC/SH and grunts creeping while harassing/scouting with BM. Then when i see an opportunity I attack and net, move back, etc.

TC with stomp and raiders is a good option, sometimes ive used SH as well simply because it helps having 2 or so fiends hexed while the other is netted and focus fired :) turns a battle over quicker than u think. add trolls in the mix from ur barracks or merc shops and a kodo for a devour.

However, I myself have some trouble when it comes to the point when undead reaches T3. I never know whether I should up my hall myself and what should be my army composition late game. All i work on mainly is using Bats when he goes destro, 2x beast when he goes mass destro, kodos when he brings aboms, etc.
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9 months ago
#12

zyth

   1
Watch replays.. >> The Second best solution.. ^^
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9 months ago
#13

Zhushulai

   1
Actually, ORC BM is very fierce, in the earlier period harassment is invincible!


UDVSORC, the easiest to use black magic attack, may cause 200% damage to the ORC heavy armor Such as :Frost Wyrm
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9 months ago
#14

beat

   1
try 1st hero BM 2nd SH grunt raider maybe wyv later.
This way u turn the gamestyle cus normally ud is the focusser btu then you can force him to tp or to fight against SH´s hex + ensnare, and that´s really not funny man. but keep an eye on your SH he may be dead when ud heroes coil/nova him so get invupot or stuff like this.

Im playing UD in 1on1s and i can tell you... hex is a very dirty thing..I HATE IT

so far, BeaT
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