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Forums \ WarCraft 3 Strategic forum \ Orc vs Human on TR
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1 year ago

thug)chazz
Orc vs Human on TR (2711 reads, 27 replies)
Lately i encountered a lot of humans on TR and i am unable to win then especially if its close spawn. Any ideas how to counter the mass ot militia, foots and summons. I used both BM + SH and FS + SH but still its so hard :/ I have a pretty good micro but the humans' push outplayes me because of imba and mass + towers :/
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1 year ago
#1

reloaded

   1
i don't use orc .But i see many orc use wind riders on TR.Maybe you should have a try
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1 year ago
#2

n4th_sr33

   1
i have a hard time against human with this, but i usually end victorious, beating human with grunt + FS/TC micro. seriously whats the problem. grunts own militia and footies, 1 grunt can own 2-3 footies and 3-4 militia; all you have to do is GET SCROLLS OF SPEED OR SLOW WILL PWN YOU; go FS+TC, FS with lvl1 wolves and lvl2 lightning at level 3; and TC with the standard aura/shockwave, but throw in a stomp lvl1 somewhere to stun all those footies/militia and own with chain lightning and focus grunt attack
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1 year ago
#3

Lurkey

   2
2007-11-12 05:24:54, n4th_sr33 wrote:
i have a hard time against human with this, but i usually end victorious, beating human with grunt + FS/TC micro. seriously whats the problem. grunts own militia and footies, 1 grunt can own 2-3 footies and 3-4 militia; all you have to do is GET SCROLLS OF SPEED OR SLOW WILL PWN YOU; go FS+TC, FS with lvl1 wolves and lvl2 lightning at level 3; and TC with the standard aura/shockwave, but throw in a stomp lvl1 somewhere to stun all those footies/militia and own with chain lightning and focus grunt attack


Pretty much summed up most of the answer.

thug want to send me a replay sometime I'll give it a look and see what happened.
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1 year ago
#4

SoI

   2
I disagree with grunts owning footies and militia, they are about equal but since youv'e got more footies then the other has grunts, footies are easier to surround with but also alot weaker to AoE.

If you get your second hero out that should mean that the enemy has casters or will have very soon which means you will not survive with grunts+ two heroes either.

It's really hard to really know what you are asking about, mass of militia foots and summons can be an early T1 towerpush, a late T1 towerpush or an early T2 towerpush among others, so yeah hard to tell.

Burrow micro and placement can be key in any situation you get pressured as an orc, if it's early T2 your talking about a tower or two might help to fend of pushes too.
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1 year ago
#5

n4th_sr33

   1
"I disagree with grunts owning footies and militia, they are about equal"
lolololololololol
Grunt: 700/800 HP, 1/7 armor (assume you are at 3), 19.5/30 damage (lets assume you are at 23), 1.6 cooldown
Footie: 420HP, 2/8 armor (assume you are at 4), 12.5/17 damage (this is barely above HALF of the damage that Grunts do...and with barely over HALF the HP, I have no problem saying that one grunt can completely own TWO footmen) (assume you are at 14), 1.35 cooldown


wow i dont know how the fuck you can say that footies are better; militia are far worse and are a JOKE against grunts.

play me in WC and we'll see if grunts>footie. or look at the friggin stats.
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1 year ago
#6

n4th_sr33

   1
with footman at 135 and grunt at 200, and human focusing on other units, its very possible to have at least 2/3 as many grunts as he has footies/militia if not more. and thats more than enough, as the stats show. micro matters a lot obviously, but assuming you are just as skilled as your opponent Orc beats Human tier 1. (unless AM is lvl3)
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1 year ago
#7

PiraTe

   2
Stats and statistics shouldn't be a problem if you micro right ^^
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1 year ago
#8

thug)chazz

   6
well next time i am thinking of early kodos to devour summons :/
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1 year ago
#9

n4th_sr33

   1
"Stats and statistics shouldn't be a problem if you micro right ^^ "

I said assuming you are at the same skill level as your opponent, lol
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1 year ago
#10

SoI

   2
2007-11-14 06:04:49, n4th_sr33 wrote:
"I disagree with grunts owning footies and militia, they are about equal"
lolololololololol
Grunt: 700/800 HP, 1/7 armor (assume you are at 3), 19.5/30 damage (lets assume you are at 23), 1.6 cooldown
Footie: 420HP, 2/8 armor (assume you are at 4), 12.5/17 damage (this is barely above HALF of the damage that Grunts do...and with barely over HALF the HP, I have no problem saying that one grunt can completely own TWO footmen) (assume you are at 14), 1.35 cooldown


wow i dont know how the fuck you can say that footies are better; militia are far worse and are a JOKE against grunts.

play me in WC and we'll see if grunts>footie. or look at the friggin stats.


You even quoted my post and still but fake quoted me, IMPRESSIVE.

Never did I say footies owns grunts, I said grunts don't own footies, that's one hell of a difference. Militia being a joke against grunts is a joke i guess? you dont mass militia but you call them to arms to aid your other units and militia have a pretty sick DPS per food for being a worker.

You compare one footie against one grunts which is like comparing a grunt with a tauren. Take food into consideration and you will notice that micro and heroes will become a deciding factor. As I said once although you completly put other words in my mouth, neither owns the other they are about equal.

PS. you use the word own a tad bit to lightly

PPS. please don't make up my answers like you want so you can flame me, if you want to flame me, flame me for something I actually wrote.
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1 year ago
#11

n4th_sr33

   1
tell me how are they 'almost equal'

also I DID SAY THAT MICRO MATTERS, LOL OF COURSE IT DOES; I SAID WITH TWO EQUALLY SKILLED PLAYERS GRUNTS WILL ALWAYS BEAT MILITIA/FOOTIES, THEY ARE NOT EQUAL

learn to read plz

oh and btw, now who is misquoting/not reading posts

"You compare one footie against one grunts which is like comparing a grunt with a tauren."

i compared 1.5 times as many footmen as grunts, as per their 200/135 and 3/2 cost and food ratios....and added militia accordingly to assume around 2 (little more footie/militia vs 1 grunt)
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1 year ago
#12

SoI

   2
You still can't compare militia with grunts, that's like comparing burrows with footies, they are there for the extra edge.

Lets compare then: 6 footies VS 4 grunts, You rarely get anymore then that in T1. Then you will always have about 6 peasents at wood.

6 footies + 6 militia VS 4 grunts, I dont see the four grunts owning that T1 fight and what I just pointed out is a reasonable scenario.

So yeah they are quite even, orc shouldn't be able to push an humans base while the human might be able to pull of an early tower rush with summons and militia.

Get my point?
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1 year ago
#13

n4th_sr33

   1
yeah i get your point, but unless human takes away its resource workers for militia it has to spend 450 gold on 6 more peasants for this to work, so you can add 2 grunts and speed scroll...

but if you take away lumber peasants then orc will be ahead resource wise and tech wise, and HU needs to expand (orc does too but its just as important for HU) so they will be behind. if you sacrifice a grunt by killing the workers building towers/militia (footies focusing on your grunts) imo its really worth it because now he has no lumber peasants, and spends time AND money to make them.

do people really take away ALL their lumber for militia? thats stupid imo, unless they are really good at tower rush micro (controlling footie/militia and peasant so they dont die and build towers
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1 year ago
#14

SoI

   2
If they tower rush they generellay don't but if the orc tries to push them they will to win a game deciding battle.
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1 year ago
#15

n4th_sr33

   1
again, how do they make up the resource losing when they do? and if they don't as you said, then they also have to make up for lost gold from making more peasants...~500 gold is a lot early game
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1 year ago
#16

SoI

   2
Well when you take alot of militia out you have to micro them well, don't just attack move them but go for surrounds and such. They die quickly but it's important to not lose them too easily.

The resources (lumber) you lose for bring out militia temporarely is not too hard on you and an early lumber mill can make up for it. At T2 & T3 you also can improve lumber harvesting so lumber should not be much of a problem.

Let's say you lose four militia, well then yeah it's a hard blow to you economy much like killing 5 wisps for a Ne is, but if it is needed you still do it (just as Wisps detonate to kill of a towering humans WE and such).
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1 year ago
#17

welcomehome

   1
fs first with fast tech late rax + burrow, harass the human while he's creeping, picking off his units and creeps, go tc 2nd with spirit lodge and beastery..if you have decent micro, you should be able to fend off any tower rushes..
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1 year ago
#18

n4th_sr33

   1
why fs>bm?

i can see TC second though, imo much better than sh except ovo
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1 year ago
#19

SoI

   2
I wouldn't fast tech on close spawn TR since you are guarenteed to get TRd and if you fast tech and he early TRs you you will lose unless you are much better then you opponent.
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1 year ago
#20

myMYM.MrOw

   9
scout close spawn...SH wards + towers and 3 grunts...
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