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Forums \ StarCraft Strategic forum \ How to play ZvT right?
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Eli_King
How to play ZvT right? (7264 reads, 15 replies, 1 year ago)
Hello I really want to know how to study the basics of the Zerg vs Terran match-ups,I play zerg And I do really want to know How to defeat a terran player as good as I can,I want to know what are the terran weakensses at this match up+What harm them the most. I'm not the biggest noob ever ,but I have problems of APM that when I get 300 APM , I get only 100- EPAM -_-. pls help =D.Thanks in advance!


p.s. : Sorry for my low English skills =( . I don't learn it now - I'm a kid and I enjoy my summer holyday at the moment .
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#1
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Alpha-NP-USeast
Know that Hydralisks have an attack bonus against Terran mech making them more effective than usual against it.
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1 year ago
#2
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ETBrooD
First of all "forget" APM at this stage, it won't make you play (much) better.

The biggest weak point for terran is that they constantly need to keep an eye on their forces. They're extremely vulnerable without good unit control especially when using SKTerran (m&m's and tanks along with vessels). This also makes it very difficult for terran players to manage their bases properly. Boxer was well known for superior unit control and very bad macro. His teammate iloveoov on the other hand was the opposite, favoring macro over micro in most cases. They both had their fair share of success but because iloveoov also had solid micro he was more successful.

Mech builds change the picture drastically, so it's important to talk about bio and mech separately. Mech, compared to bio, is less shaky in the later stages of the game but needs a lot of theoretical knowledge in the early game.

The terran strong point is their firepower. They easily destroy everything in sight with seemingly little effort. A good game sense, control and tactics are extremely important to play against them successfully.
Just letting your guard down for a few seconds can completely ruin the game for you. Constantly staying focused is of utmost importance. Of course trying to stay relaxed is also important because if you're tense it's harder to react accordingly.


I have practiced zerg for a while but I never got very far (I believe C+ was my highest rank with zerg) so I can only give basic advice.

You have to plan ahead. This is the most important thing someone will ever tell you. Also a bad plan is better than no plan whatsoever.

In the beginning I'd advice you to use just one build order and try a lot of different follow-up's with it. Be creative after the early game, try to have fun and just let yourself go. The reason why I'm telling you that is that I have made the experience that having fun seems to lead to more success. Fighting for victory without thinking about the actual win allows you to play more freely and give yourself the chance to re-evaluate situations instead of losing yourself in a frency that can really hurt you.

If you want (much) better and (much) more detailed advice you should look for stuff from Day[9]. He's awesome :)


edit:
#1 Hydralisks don't have a bonus against mech. They do 1/2 damage against bio, that's probably what you meant I think?
I'm reading your mind. Think of something.
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#3
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LML (Division Leader SC)
little correction, SKTerran is marine medics forces with 2port vessel for irridiate+matrix, but no tanks.


for the zerg part, early scouting is very important, many Terran go very early CC nowadays, after their rax, then go up to 5rax and turret up to defend against mutalisks. If you catch a terran offguard, with unfinished turrets at his expansions, or not even started, you can do great harm to him, sniping the scv's building the turrets, then snipe the unfinished turrets aftwards, and if there are no marine+medic forces near the turrets, you can easily stomp the turrets, as, if you got 11, mutas are way strong that turrets and a group of them can 2 hit a turret, if it isn't dead yet, wait a second so it simply burns down.
a switch into higher tech/stronger units is relevant then, the zerg has only two splash damage units in BW, the mutalisks, but the splash are jumping worms of the mutalisk attacks, which (I believe) do only the squareroot of the original damage on their first bounce, then the squareroot of that at the second bounce, so attack upgrades don't make the bounces any stronger.
So you have to use the other splash damage unit, lurkers, they can 2hit marines, so if you get a couple of lurkers, a mm force dies in a matter of seconds, if not watched out for, otherwise they spread out to take as few splash as possible and rape your lurkers. Happily most Terrans go +1 atk upgrade nowadays, due to greater micro, so you can still 2hit marines for a longer time, especially if he doesn't watch, or you use hold lurkers (get overlord in the group of the lurks, press hold position and they won't shoot unless you give them the attack or stop command, can be great to trap the terran, so he losses alot of units running over your lurkers then).
next thing you want to do, is take an expansion while harrassing with mutas, tech for lurkers, and go for the hive as soon as possible, to get swarm, because otherwise well microed terran forces rape your lurkers!
then ultra+ling+swarm+plague+scourges rape him pretty good. Make sure you pick gas expansions over mineral expansions, since Zerg is very gas heavy with lurkers, defilers and ultralisks. upgrade ground armor and melee attack for zerg units, so your switch to ling/ultra can do greater damage.

this only applies if the terran goes for marine+medic forces (ofc he might put in tanks and vessels, and if you go ultra/ling go for vults with spidermines).

If he goes for mech, you also have to expand enough and then outmacro with hydralisks+mutalisks (get air armor upgrade, ground missilie damage (I think!) for greater hydra dmg).
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1 year ago
#4
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Eli_King
wow man I have understood all the comments at this thread and I have to say that you do really help me! ty!! I think that I have to keep further listen to other people who still can respond here!

p.s.: you mean #3 that if I hold with an overlord a lurkers gruop,they will not attack unless I'll order them?? THAT SOUNDS GREAT!!
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1 year ago
#5
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LML (Division Leader SC)
yes, what also works: press A for attack, and then target an opponent's building in the fog of war, either way the lurkers won't attack (maybe they loss that status if you reveal that building, no idea).
It's good to try to make the terran run into a trap, like if he sends an SCV up a ramp first, to see if there are lurks, and since they wouldn't attack, he would run up, you press stop, and tons of marines die and he retreats.

another sweet trick is to burrow a lurker, then move another lurker next to him (let's say, to the left of him), then let him move to the right of that burrowed lurker, and immediately click on the burrowed lurker, now they are standing upon each other, and then you burrow that one two, maybe to it with 3 lurkers, that way the terran scouts and sees one single lurker, goes in to micro with marines, and then gets killed because 3 lurkers are there.
Not useful against tanks/firebats, any other splash damage unit.
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1 year ago
#6
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ETBrooD
@LML
Thanks for the correction, looks like I'm starting to forget stuff :<

Something that is really important in TvZ is to realize if a terran player doesn't use (enough) firebats. The classic combination in the late game is lurker/ling/defiler. At that stage a really good terran notices a lack of lurkers and responds by producing more firebats, sometimes dozens of them. It can be a nasty surprise for a zerg player who likes to abuse dark swarm by using less lurkers, for whatever reason. I have turned around a couple games because many players don't expect 12 firebats to surround their ~5 lurkers and annihilate them in just seconds. This is especially easy to do if the zerg player likes to push in deep very quickly as it takes more time for him to burrow the lurkers and there's enough time for terran to get rid of all the zerglings before eventually killing the lurkers that might not even be burrowed yet. You don't want that to happen, it can cost you the game.

So anytime you notice a lack of firebats you have a much easier time dominating. It makes it cost-efficient for you to fight with smaller forces. If you see lots of firebats, respond by producing more ultralisks to punish the lack of firepower.

Another good idea in the late game is to upgrade hydralisks. This hasn't been used a lot in the past but it's getting more popular nowadays. Since you're using defilers for dark swarm and plague it obviously makes sense to cast plague on vessels which has been a standard play since many years. The most common follow-up was to build 1 or 2 mutalisks to snipe the vessels.
Another good idea though is to use hydralisks instead since they can also be used to hunt down plagued m&m's or to destroy command centers, things that are a bit more difficult to do with other units. This particular idea is also quite practical because you can produce lurkers when and where you want and there's less waiting time before new hydralisks arrive at the ralley point to get morphed.

Another modern idea is to build a spore in front of certain expansions. This is also used in the late game after you've successfully plagued vessels. By doing that you can win much time when terran tries to push forward as he has trouble irradiating your defending lurkers. He also cannot simply destroy the spore with m&m's because you will cast plague immediately. His only solution is to use siege tanks in which case you cast a single dark swarm and push out a little bit with a few lurkers. As you can see just one spore at each of your exposed expansions can win you a ton of time and reduce your troubles a lot.

Always upgrade defiler energy, it will make your life much easier.

Nydus canals ftw. Seriously, they're almost imba :)
I'm reading your mind. Think of something.
This post was edited by its author @ 1 year ago
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1 year ago
#7
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Eli_King
Really Really thank you guys that you helped me in your free time to respond long and smart responds that really help me! ty once again ^^
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1 year ago
#8
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LML (Division Leader SC)
a little point to taking out expansions: If you know the expansion is undefended, run in with zerglings, he will then lift the CC, so then fly in with some scourgse, to make it have red HP, then take over the CC with a queen, it works great, but if the terran manages to repair the CC while the queen is in it, you don't get it when it leaves.. happened to me once, damn I was pissed;dd
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1 year ago
#9
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Eli_King
I another great way to deal with bio - the queen can ensnare the gruop of bio and I can hire some lurkers and surround them while they cann't escape in time :D
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1 year ago
#10
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LML (Division Leader SC)
also ensnare disables the stim speed, and unstimmed units shoot 18% (i think) slower, so it's rly great:)
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1 year ago
#11
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Endelite
Hopefully you don't think this is too old a post (only one month) but it was also referred to by someone else and I saw this, so I thought I'd make the correction:
Actually, stim is way more powerful than that - stim increases the attack rate from 1.6 to 2.6 shots per second, which is an increase of 62.5%.
Dropping it to normal from stim means taking damage only 61.54% as quickly, although, from my observations, a stimulated yet ensnared marine ACTUALLY fires a little slower than a normal one, at 1.525 hits per second (1÷1.05×normal rate of 1.6/s).
So ensnare really nerfs marine fire...except that it still hurts you a lot...
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1 year ago
#12
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Penguin
Try to use queens in a properly... thats the issue though :D
Human stupidity is Infinite
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1 year ago
#13
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IMCL85
play like jaedong then everything is rite in a zvt.
多情自古空余恨 ..
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1 year ago
#14
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Penguin
Zero is playing better ZvT atm though
Human stupidity is Infinite
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1 year ago
#15
biar
I'm a Zerg amateur who has been losing 90% of his zvt's but couple thinks I have to notice.

1. When using speed lings against marine medic, always scout the size of his force with a few lings and build the zerglings to counter accordingly. Try to engage the infantry army in open grounds and flank him to death. DO NOT let him reach the choke to contain your expansion.

2. get 11 mutas+1 overlord and do some muta harassment. If he doesn't have turrets harass his scv's, if he masses turrets try to fly around his barracks and pick off popped out infantry units ans many as possible.

3. use lurkers to kill him and do as much damage ASAP vs vessels

4. don't try to engage his army once he has vessels, turtle and tech to hive till you have ultra armor.
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