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Forums \ Suggestions & Ideas \ Will HoN ever have a place on GG.net?

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Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 2

Slight

Will HoN ever have a place on GG.net? (22592 reads, 80 replies, 2 years ago)

My question is very simple:

What will it take for the HoN scene to become e-sport material and to be included as a GG.net game?

Please post comments in a discussion format (duh...), for I will be adding to this thread consistently.

2 years ago

Big stars represents five levels - This user is on level 7

Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 7

Garuda

I thought this site is about Blizzard games? Not Dota ripoffs.

To be a rock and not to roll

2 years ago

Big stars represents five levels - This user is on level 6

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DocSmoothJew

2010-04-17 22:15, c4_Garuda wrote:
I thought this site is about Blizzard games? Not Dota ripoffs.

See, that kind of comment is just not productive. If you don't really have anything to contribute don't bother posting at all.

I think S2 needs to be seeking out the really high level DotA players and asking them what they need to fix/what they feel is wrong about the metagame and overall balance that's keeping them away. That and they really need to get some servers in China. Although the lack thereof could be similar to why they never ended up getting any Aussie servers (the money issue).

2 years ago

Slight

2010-04-17 22:15, c4_Garuda wrote:
I thought this site is about Blizzard games? Not Dota ripoffs.

Well, technically, DotA is not a Blizzard game. It's only using the Warcraft III engine. The best way i think DotA is *related* to Blizzard on a conceptual basis in that of the Hero system in a RTS engine/interface. In this way, HoN is just as related to Blizzard as DotA--even though HoN obviously doesnt use the Warcraft III engine.

Avi1231 wrote:
[. . .]
I think S2 needs to be seeking out the really high level DotA players and asking them what they need to fix/what they feel is wrong about the metagame and overall balance that's keeping them away. [. . .]

I don't know if they necessarily need *DotA* player's idea, but just smart people's ideas. The meta game of HoN is going to--and should be--different than DotA. In my mind, HoN seems to be catering to lower-skilled players with less benefits for high level play. Id est, heroes like Swiftblade (in dota: Juggernaut/Yunero) are given late game potential (with the ability to attack out of your spin at it's top level & counterattack) on top of their extremely powerful early/mid-game dominance. This should not be the case.

I think smart people, with a good idea of how DotA-esque game's shuld be played, should be rallying behind the higher potential game: HoN. DotA can only go so far at this point because of a faulty/lackluster engine (until Icefrog's colab with Valve is complete). HoN can be what DotA is and so much more, and I think that's why players need to help S2 (because they dont really know what they are doing some of the time) get their game on track to being e-sport potential.

Lemme know what you think. Also, another question:

What do you see in HoN that needs to be more like DotA and vice versa?

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

Garuda

#2 Sry if that offends u but its a FACT. Its an idea, taken from one game, implemented in another. Im not sure how can HoN have place here, of all the other games. I mean, if GG.net wanted that, we would probably have CS as well as some other titles.
But I guess once HoN enters more comp scene (if ever lol) we can then expect something, maybe.

DotA can only go so far at this point because of a faulty/lackluster engine

Rly? How can a "bad" engine prevent DotA from further development? Wc3 engine is not perfect, but you can start disliking it only when you play 1v1 games, not dota. I guess graphics come to mind which dont sute typical RTS, or mb pathfinding?which can suck sometimes. But for DotA I think engine fits quite well.

To be a rock and not to roll

2 years ago

Outlaw-

no
never

2 years ago

ephi

2010-04-18 11:51, c4_Garuda wrote:
But I guess once HoN enters more comp scene (if ever lol) we can then expect something, maybe

More, if ever? From what I've seen, this weekend there was a 1k$ tourney finals, a qualifications round for a 5k$ tourney where 8 teams will be flying and staying for free wherever the finals are, Eco league, ESL, TWL ladder, some weekends ago i38 lan in UK, some weekends ago, 2500$ alienware finals, sometime soon dreamhack, sponsors coming left and right.

Not doubting hon will get more competitive, but as it is right now, economicaly wise it's looking better than Dota tbh.

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

Slight

c4_Garuda wrote:
How can a "bad" engine prevent DotA from further development?

Here are a few ways the DotA developers would probably LIKE to change, but cannot change because of the engine limitations:

1. Interface changes. As far as I know, the only way to change the interface of Warcraft III requires 3rd party software on a user level. It is not feasible for IceFrog's team to change the size of the buff queue, to move/rescale the minimap size, to add a function disabling right-clicking the minimap, and ultimately to update the actual patchwork of the game--IceFrog is stuck inside the shell of what Blizzard decides to change in Wc3 (this is prevalent every time a patch comes out from Blizz HQ and the DotA scene is put on hold until a new DotA comes out to meet the demands of the new patch).

2. Graphics. While not a major topic, it bears mentioning, but not as a major topic of my list.

3. Adding extraneous software to the game itself; you have to have a myriad of 3rd party programs running to play DotA competitively...
a) AutoHotkey/Warkeys
b) Anti-hack (CEVO Client, etc)
c) Reconnection Software (I heard about this just recently...)
d) Ventrilo/Teamspeak/XFire
e) Garena (most likely)

These are all required to play the game to it's fullest, and more importantly, none of them will ever be a part of the game itself. You will always have to be running these other annoying programs to be able to play correctly, and that does not sit well with me.

I would rack my brain for more points, but I am pressed for time and have other topics to address; sorry.

ephi wrote:
More, if ever? From what I've seen, this weekend there was a 1k$ tourney finals, a qualifications round for a 5k$ tourney where 8 teams will be flying and staying for free wherever the finals are, Eco league, ESL, TWL ladder, some weekends ago i38 lan in UK, some weekends ago, 2500$ alienware finals, sometime soon dreamhack, sponsors coming left and right.

This is something that is REALLY important. The fact is that HoN players are not nearly as skilled as DotA players, and the scene is infantile, yet there is the same, if not more, economic support rallied behind HoN teams. Why? The answer is simple: Companies/Groups looking to sponsor a team will take one look at DotA and say, "this looks ugly and seems to be reaching stagnation." They look at HoN and say, "Wow! This is really nice-looking and has a lot of potential." Since e-sports itself is a new and growing visage to the world, the company will most likely go with the platform with the most potential because they are investing that it will grow in proportion to the e-sports scene.

You may say that the companies/group that I have portrayed have little knowledge about the scene--and while that's probably true--even so, what would a learned investor say about DotA vs HoN? DotA=limited; HoN=not-very-limited. Which one will grow more? HoN.

Yet, regardless, maybe I am missing the point because of the following...

c4_Garuda wrote:
I mean, if GG.net wanted that, we would probably have CS as well as some other titles.

Even as I have made the connection between DotA, HoN, and Blizzard, it seems this is going to be the most limiting factor. Maybe I just love GG.net too much to think of having to get my HoN competative news from somewhere else... *shrug*. It will make me sad the day I dont check this site twice a day...

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

Slight

@#5 Thank you for your contribution.

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 3

synxmax

Never ever

I have no idea about signature , sick of this stuff

2 years ago

#10

DocSmoothJew

I think the problem is that S2 started down the path of porting DotA heroes and first didn't pay attention/think about which heroes actually should be ported to get a nice base for the metagame going and second they never did reach the point where they asked the community which heroes still need to be ported and just did whatever they wanted.

They should have either watched a bunch of DotA replays and and used that data to port heroes to HoN or they should have just never ported a hero and just ported the basic mechanics and made their own heroes.

2 years ago

#11

Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 4

LOLlipop

no never (2)

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

#12

supa_fly

Don't add HoN. I'll never visit this site again.

2 years ago

#13

Foncl

I find it interesting that so many DotAplayers/fans seem to feel very threatened by HoN. HoN is already replacing DotA at some big events so I guess that´s the reason many people feel threatened by HoN, they´re afraid it will replace DotA.

In the end most people will play the game that´s more enjoyable and more popular, all this HoN trashtalking is just pointless. Play the game you enjoy and let others play what they enjoy.

2 years ago

#14

Juggernaut

2010-04-21 05:36, supa_fly wrote:
Don't add HoN. I'll never visit this site again.

And nothing of importance will be lost.

2 years ago

#15

ScanTraXX

#12 u think gg.net really cares about you xD Fact is HoN isnt that good of a game ... and i dont think there is a pro league ? its still in beta ... and even dota never was epic or anything so ..my opinion no to HoN on this site

PLay hard go pro

2 years ago

#16

DocSmoothJew

2010-04-21 14:17, scantraxx wrote:
#12 u think gg.net really cares about you xD Fact is HoN isnt that good of a game ... and i dont think there is a pro league ? its still in beta ... and even dota never was epic or anything so ..my opinion no to HoN on this site

Why are you even commenting on a DotA related topic if you don't even care about DotA?

2 years ago

#17

SmokeyZerg

HoN already replaced DotA at Inferno Online , the big Internet Cafe with around 300 computers. they have weekend tournaments it used to be Dota now its HoN..
edit: if youre looking for HoN replays and such just visit www.gamereplays.org

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago

2 years ago

#18

Small stars represents one level - This user is on level 1

fingers

It will eventually. DotA is on it's way out and all the HoN haters remind me of the band that keeps playing music as the Titanic is sinking.

2 years ago

#19

tillicollapse

#1 is right its just a bad ripoff with maybe better graphics but still the rest sucks its for ppl who fail at dota and these ppl now say omg hon is 1000x better then dota cause i suck at it nothing more

2 years ago

#20

DocSmoothJew

All the HoN fans coming in here and talking trash have no right as I'm active in the HoN community and the DotA hate over there is just as bad if not a bit worse than HoN hate over here. Not that it makes the HoN hatred okay, but trash talking people for trashing on HoN is bull.

The only reason I am not fully on the HoN side is that S2 blows, but picked a good project and did some stuff really well. I love that I don't lose control of my hero and I love how much smoother things feel, but some seriously important heroes from DotA are missing ports and it shows in HoN's metagame. Obsidian Destroyer would be a welcome addition as he is a great counter to agi and str carries, but instead S2 ported stuff like Spirit Breaker and Syllabear.

At #19, I know what you mean and I don't think that's really fair. I mean, DotA definitely feels just generally clunkier than HoN. There are things that were way over simplified between DotA and HoN, but some of it was for the better. My previous example of not unselecting your hero ever (unless you're Chen or you have Necro book) is a good example of proper simplification, but the thing where they really butchered a bunch of attack animations or projectile speeds is kinda stupid.