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Forums \ StarCraft 2 forum \ Why the SC2 matches weren't broadcasted
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2 years ago
#21
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master07
Kespa has their reasons. You don't know them and I don't know them. Whatever their reasons were, it was to serve their interests, not yours. FYI, everyone does this, not just Kespa. Crying does nothing. Speculating does nothing. Swearing does nothing.

Grow up, guys.
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2 years ago
#22
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lipslidemyrail
Lol I registered on this website JUST to post on this thread!

Honestly, I have to agree a little bit with what supercreck had said earlier about how the SC scene wouldn't be the same without Kespa. Although this development with KESPA over the exhibition match between MOON and NADA is unfortunate, we can all understand where this is coming from. Blizzard may have made the game initially, and hold the rights the their own game. but KESPA and the E-sports community in Korea MADE it a cash-cow and an international success. And the comment from Lord_of_chaos about his unselfish contributions to this website is retold with even more vigor when considering KESPA and south-korean associations have put in 9 years of work who put together the E-sports scene and never asked a penny from BLIZZARD.

Additionally, it's apparent that KESPA has been shaken to say the least. With the recent declaration by the tongue of BLizzard itself, SC2 will not offer LAN support. Everyone knows that this means the Korean E-sports scene, which runs primarily off of LAN based tournaments, will ultimately fade away, and have no leverage inside the SC2 platform. Now, you have to ask yourself the fairness in BLIZZARDS decision on this matter for a change. Clearly we see why KESPA can't go un-heard.
Take for example NADA, a HUGE success, a legend, THE GENIUS TERRAN. Did Blizzard Galvonize this internationally popular E-sports HERO into the Hall of Fame for SC? The story is the same for each Progamer, but the point being that BLIZZARD's involvment and their role ultimately inside the E-sports community and KESPA itself (who created the colossal Computergame industry when it went corporate in the late 90's) had been a "blind eye" to say the least.
And now Blizzard, who NEVER helped to construct or offer a hand in the success of KESPA or SC at large, and in fact left it for dead along with its WC3 counter-part when WOW hit the market, suddenly sees the opportunity to strip away many years of hard work by corporations and groups of individuals by not allowing LAN support. In my humble opinion, KESPA is simply reinstating their prominence over the FACT that MOON and NADA, who's success is largely due to KESPA and it's corporate muscle, still fall under rules and the jurisdiction of their association. And that if Blizzard wants to hold a surprise exhibition match, its gonna have to recognize KESPA and respect them. Blizzard can't simply act like a deserting father, who left behind his 1 y/o son to fend for himself, and then com back 9 years later seeing dollar signs and say "oh, I'll take this over now even though i've been absent all this time."
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2 years ago
#23
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Supercreck
2009-07-27 05:42, lipslidemyrail wrote:
Lol I registered on this website JUST to post on this thread!

Honestly, I have to agree a little bit with what supercreck had said earlier about how the SC scene wouldn't be the same without Kespa. Although this development with KESPA over the exhibition match between MOON and NADA is unfortunate, we can all understand where this is coming from. Blizzard may have made the game initially, and hold the rights the their own game. but KESPA and the E-sports community in Korea MADE it a cash-cow and an international success. And the comment from Lord_of_chaos about his unselfish contributions to this website is retold with even more vigor when considering KESPA and south-korean associations have put in 9 years of work who put together the E-sports scene and never asked a penny from BLIZZARD.

Additionally, it's apparent that KESPA has been shaken to say the least. With the recent declaration by the tongue of BLizzard itself, SC2 will not offer LAN support. Everyone knows that this means the Korean E-sports scene, which runs primarily off of LAN based tournaments, will ultimately fade away, and have no leverage inside the SC2 platform. Now, you have to ask yourself the fairness in BLIZZARDS decision on this matter for a change. Clearly we see why KESPA can't go un-heard.
Take for example NADA, a HUGE success, a legend, THE GENIUS TERRAN. Did Blizzard Galvonize this internationally popular E-sports HERO into the Hall of Fame for SC? The story is the same for each Progamer, but the point being that BLIZZARD's involvment and their role ultimately inside the E-sports community and KESPA itself (who created the colossal Computergame industry when it went corporate in the late 90's) had been a "blind eye" to say the least.
And now Blizzard, who NEVER helped to construct or offer a hand in the success of KESPA or SC at large, and in fact left it for dead along with its WC3 counter-part when WOW hit the market, suddenly sees the opportunity to strip away many years of hard work by corporations and groups of individuals by not allowing LAN support. In my humble opinion, KESPA is simply reinstating their prominence over the FACT that MOON and NADA, who's success is largely due to KESPA and it's corporate muscle, still fall under rules and the jurisdiction of their association. And that if Blizzard wants to hold a surprise exhibition match, its gonna have to recognize KESPA and respect them. Blizzard can't simply act like a deserting father, who left behind his 1 y/o son to fend for himself, and then com back 9 years later seeing dollar signs and say "oh, I'll take this over now even though i've been absent all this time."


I agree with everything but what you said about Kespa not being able to maintain, they still could, just would have to hold the matches on b.net, and then record the wins/losses.

Thank you for having some sense when you said that, you said what I wanted to say in more articulate words. I still think that Blizzard has something up their sleeve, I doubt they wanna just take away KESPA's power over the gaming scene in korea, why would they do that when it drives sales in their country? It's free marketing for Blizzard, and I doubt they will just throw that away, if they do, it's not the same blizzard that used to exist, and I fear for sc2's future.
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2 years ago
#24
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XATMO8G
My complain all comes down to this. Why does kespa have to be so selfish and strict. I don't see any harm with them allowing a show match. There is no reason why they should not allow it. In fact it will boost their ratings because its SC2, the most anticipated game in Korea and argubaly the world.

I don't understand why you guys are putting so much thought into it. The fact is, Kespa didn't allow for the show match to be broadcasted and that is horrible on their part. They deserved to be flamed. Doing it for their own interests? For what reason? What does one show match gonna do to them?

This isn't the first time Kespa has dissapointed the international starcraft community. Look at the GOMTV classic they did not want to sanction it and even banned some teams from participating in the tournament. Why? Because they didn't like the fact that Gom offered streaming services to foreigners and with English commentators too.

Overall Kespa is affecting the growth of starcraft internationally. In the end we non-korean starcraft fans are the ones being affected. Maybe its because Kespa wants to make sure Korean gamers are always gonna be the best and they don't want us foreigners to get involved. This was one example, they probably didn't allow the show match was because there was free streaming with tasteless and artosis commentating on ESL TV for the international fans.

This is why I hope blizzard becomes more active in the Korean esports community and start broadcasting some matches to the international fans with english coverage and official streams.

This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#25
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Lord_of_Chaos
Moon doesn't owe his success to kespa, as kespa has nothing to do with wc3 afaik.

I'm not saying we'd be better off without KeSPA, I'm saying they fucked the fans over with this move. I'm not sure I'd choose Blizz over KeSPA for the future sc2 muscle, given blizz's failure to create even a decent bw ladder. The only thing I'm saying is that blocking the Nada vs Moon showmatch from being shown is just stupid. And if they do it to get back at Blizzard, they are just childish. It will not affect Blizz at all, and it will only piss of the fans.

KeSPA is a good thing to have, and they've done lots of good. I don't dispute that. But that doesn't give them the right to act in any way they want, or save them from critisism when they fuck up. Which they did here.
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2 years ago
#26
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ETBrooD
Kespa's bad decision making increased heavily in 2009. Savior failed to complete his quest, so far at least. And Michael Jackson died. Coincidence? :D
I'm reading your mind. Think of something.
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2 years ago
#27
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skelgun
SupercrEck and master07...
"grow up, guys"? LOL
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2 years ago
#28
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PGTourNewb
If the players and teams agreed and signed contracts with kespa which I believe they have then they MUST abide by the rules set by kespa. The players and their agents knew of all the conditions. If they don't like the rules don't sign the contract it is simple as that. Kespa isn't any different than any other sports governing body or team. There are hockey players that are NOT allowed to ride motorcycles or roller blade, now while you may think these are stupid rules this is just how it is, you sign a contract with your league or team and you must abide by those rules.

XATMO8G
Yes it is possible, it's as simple as NOT driving your car if you can't afford it don't drive it simple. Kespa must be doing something right, kespa is in charge of Starcraft and it is doing amazing in Korea, Warcraft 3 is not run by kespa and it is very small in comparison. I am sure there are reasons behind all the rules they put forward and while they may seem stupid to a lot of us maybe it only seems stupid because we don't know all the facts.

김택용 FIGHTING!!
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2 years ago
#29
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PokkiTeam
To XATMO8G / OP

Source? Are there some articles regarding this? Some newsletters, videos, interviews or similar? This thread is a flame-fest against Kespa because of what? Which source are we talking about here? Or where you there yourself perhaps, overhearing what Kespa had to say?

And Kespa "fucked up"? If Kespa are in charge of these progamers you speak of then they simply have to apply by their rules. Even if the rules are not conveniently made to satisfy our needs here at gosugamers, it is still rules to be followed.
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2 years ago
#30
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XATMO8G
Even if Kespa owned these progamers and had the right to do whatever they want, I don't think its right for them to ban a simple exhibiton match just because they wanna play politics against blizzard. It is the total opposite of their goal and original creation which is to organize the starcraft pro scene and make it a professional sport when EVERYONE can enjoy.

Now, I don't have any articles or things like that to prove this but I can 100% say that I heard tasteless and artosis say that:

"Kespa did not think it was a good idea, and they also banned players like upmagic and some other guys from being here today to participate in the matches"

Artosis might discuss this issue in his weekly news at scforall but as of now I don't have any concrete proof. But to all of you guys that were watching the semi finals cast on ESL TV, I believe it was right after Boxer vs Nada, you definitely heard them saying that.
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2 years ago
#31
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PokkiTeam

When did Kespa made such a statement? When did anyone made such a statement?

and had the right to do whatever they want??
play politics against blizzard?
banned players like upmagic and some other guys?

I feel this is just plain exaggerating, and it surprises me that so many finds this humiliating or unfair. If Kespa felt they didn’t have control over what happened here then its only natural they don’t want to participate.

Its unfair for us to speak like this about the valuable source of Starcraft we have today, both for e-sport in general and our personal interest in the case. We should be happy with what they provide for us. If Kespa didn’t want to participate for whatever reason we should trust that their reason was a good one before being proven otherwise. I have nothing against speculations but I really don’t think they deserve "fuck Kespa" and "they fucked us over". That is just meaningless rants about a subject not being known to us.

What I mean is, we get a lot for free. This time we didn’t. Is that enough for us to throw shit about something we actually like?
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2 years ago
#32
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XATMO8G
#31 First of let me ask is this Kespa the same Kespa that made Starcraft what it is today? I don't think so. Starcraft is a competitive game that people are suppose to have fun with, not one filled with politics and jealousy.

As for those statements, like I said I heard them in the cast with tasteless and artosis on ESL TV. Im sure theres at least one other person besides me that heard it. Cmon guys! And my first sentence was EVEN IF KESPA HAD THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

Now the next thing is that, Kespa has done nothing for international fans. Hell they pretty much did their best to keep international fans out of the scene for as long as possible. We get alot free?

Exactly what did we get from them? True they made things like the starleagues and proleague popular, but have they made any effort at all to broadcast it to the international fans without us having to go through all the trouble of trying to figure out the korean sites? And again when Gom broadcasted their tournament in English, Kespa banned certain teams from participating in it.

We need to stand up against them when they are wrong and we should not just keep quiet and and say "oh well". And thats exactly where Im going with this, I see something wrong and Im gonna complain about it because thats the right thing to do.
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2 years ago
#33
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ETBrooD
Hey man, slow down. Kespa is shitty, that's right. But as long as you or anyone else don't have something better, do you really think it would be good to bring them down? Can you see the problem? Sure you can jump off a cliff to escape the lions but first make sure there's a river or you can type the very last gg of your life.
Self-destruction is not a solution, sir.
I'm reading your mind. Think of something.
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2 years ago
#34
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Lord_of_Chaos
The GOM league is an excellent example of a very high level non-kespa sanctioned league.

I'm not saying the world without kespa would be a better place for esports, but it would definetly be if kespa loosened up.
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2 years ago
#35
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Supercreck
2009-07-27 21:32, XATMO8G wrote:
Now the next thing is that, Kespa has done nothing for international fans. Hell they pretty much did their best to keep international fans out of the scene for as long as possible. We get alot free?

Exactly what did we get from them? True they made things like the starleagues and proleague popular, but have they made any effort at all to broadcast it to the international fans without us having to go through all the trouble of trying to figure out the korean sites? And again when Gom broadcasted their tournament in English, Kespa banned certain teams from participating in it.

We need to stand up against them when they are wrong and we should not just keep quiet and and say "oh well". And thats exactly where Im going with this, I see something wrong and Im gonna complain about it because thats the right thing to do.


Kespa has given us the level of play that we strive for. Without it , we wouldn't have the amazing play that we see today. There would be no reason for foreigners to go into korea and try to get better by playing there. Just because they haven't given us something personally or physically, they have given us something to strive for, they can't hand out skill, not matter how hard you want it, it is something earned.
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2 years ago
#36
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XATMO8G
That is a totally different thing. Starcraft would have became a big thing in Korea even without Kespa. Although Kespa has done alot of good for the Korean scene I don't think it would have died off without it. Level of play? Even without Kespa the level of play would still be as high.

How many of us are actually trying to be Starcraft progamers? I mean seriously? For guys like Idra and Nony yeah their dream might have been to go to korea but Im talking about what they have done for the fans. For example Gom gave us english cast and a official stream. What has Kespa gave us? Especially recently.

I don't know why you are siding with kespa so much. Heck I don't even know why theres so much of a debate here when the issue is that Kespa was wrong and they were childish. You do realize that in the end we the foreign FANS (not progamers) are the ones that lose out.
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#37
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PokkiTeam
2009-07-28 00:34, Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
The GOM league is an excellent example of a very high level non-kespa sanctioned league.

I'm not saying the world without kespa would be a better place for esports, but it would definetly be if kespa loosened up.

With that said I guess there is a lot of previous misshapenness regarding Kespa and international fans? Not just these exhibition matches?
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2 years ago
#38
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aimaimaim
lol @ kespa :D :D :D

and here i thought i was going to see kick-ass SC2 games :D :D :D
Blizzard in now on a DISASTER in SLOW-MOTION ..
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2 years ago
#39
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michinyou2
I'm Korean

KESPA = Korean <- Error

We despise KESPA! FUC*
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2 years ago
#40
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Ramiz
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=993
All read this. I think that Blizzard is going to release these games anyway. I hope so...
"Living for the swarm..."
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