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Forums \ Strategic forum \ ZvT Please Help
3 months ago

Killer[1]
ZvT Please Help (669 reads, 11 replies)
------------------- Introduction (Could Skip It) ---------------------
Ok! So here I go again. Last time I wrote to you guys I was asking for help in my Zerg vs Protoss games and thanks to your help I managed D+ (around 2800) in my ZvP games. But now I've decided that I should concentrate and learn the Zerg vs Terran part instead. So I watched a lot of replays and tried to copy the BO's and stuff but am still way behind.

----------------------------- The Replay ------------------------------
Here I have uploaded a replay of a game I played:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C849VGIY

---------------------- Replay Info (Could Skip It) -------------------


------------------------- Replay Questions ---------------------------
I need to understand where do I constantly go wrong. I played another such game that went just as long and it was thanks to the massive amount of resources that I want. I just can't seem to break the terran. My swarm is never enough.

------------------------- Overall Questions ---------------------------
1. I never seem to manage to make the mutas fast and ready. I constantly get pressured from terran into making sunkens and there go my 200 minerals for the spire.

2. Where should I place my overlords and how should I scout with them best? I put them on cliffs (tho there aren't many on Python and BlueStorm).

3. What should I do versus a 2 barracks opening? He always pressures and I can't seem to make him leave my base as he has like hundreds of towers in his base (maybe I'm late with the spire again).

4. What type of army should I use. I go for Lurker, Lings, Scourges and Defilers. What percentage should i seek?

5. How do you guys use defilers? I see that pro players control them with some lings but place them to be first in the control so they have an easier access. But that doesn't make it easy when I attack cause it either dies fast or is way behind in my army and places swarm too late. Also how do you protect them.

6. In games I always end up vs a lot of Science Vessels. I just can't take them down. In middle or late game I don't have the necessary gas (but have tons of minerals) so I can't make scourges. Should I use hydralisks and is there ever a good time for them.

7. At the moment this is what I remember I wanted to know. Please add anything that is of great importance!

Thank you very much in advance!
Quote  
 

3 months ago
#1

Odeur

   1
spire comes right after your lair is done
before your spire is done make sure you have enough food and money for 9 mutas

overlords can be placed around your base to see incoming drops and at points where you can see him move his army

defiler plague the vessels and use one muta to kill them all


sry i'll edit it later..
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3 months ago
#2

sD.AnTstYle

 (StarCraft Editor)   6
Things like percentages shouldn't bother you. Nitpicking at points of play to that sort of level is for pros who've mastered everything else already... make units according to situation, by scouting him and seeing what he's doing.

If you're microing your mutas properly, check your timing - mutas should come out in the 7th minute or so (they've come out earlier against me, even on 3hatch builds), and perhaps you should work on finding terran weaknesses a bit more.

Even if he puts up 15 turrets, there's likely to be a weakness somewhere - he might not turret his rax, for instance, so you can pick off units as they arrive, or there might be a spot where u can pick off scvs without many turrets hitting you, etc.

And if he does spend that much on turrets, he'll set himself back and have either a later tech or a smaller army, allowing you to develop your hive and smash him up later on.
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3 months ago
#3

Kakashi

   1
------------------------- Overall Questions ---------------------------

1. Depends on what BO u use. I suggest dronewhore one, then sunkens won`t hurt u. I ve got problems with it too , it depends on what he does. (fcken 4 rax rushers )

2. Just one overlord scout, at cliff. Second scouts natural ( your hatchery doesn`t see bunker ). No more overlord scouting, unless you want to loose game right there.

3. Then u have no option but to dronewhore and go sunkens. Make only drones and sunken on 15 , asap as your hatch finishes. Then 2 and 3 at 23-25 supply.

4. You want to switch on ultra ling. You can get your 4th with defiler + lurker , unless u didn`t loose game sooner.

5. Learn your mouse accuracy. Just hit that defiler and press that w.

6. You should use scourge. Never waste them tho , never ever go scourge alone (unless vessels are clearly alone) , best moment to kill vessels is when u engage, ai ignores scourge when there are atacking units near.

7.

-Your build order. From what u say , I d think u lack knowledge about this mu ( well me too but nevermind) so its something we must work on first :) You must adjust your bo to his bo. If u do it right , everything else is easier.

-Learn control. You need know how u gonna flank him etc.

- This is very multitask heavy mu :)

- Your 3rd exp. NEVER loose it. Biggest threat here are fcken drops. I don`t know how to deal with it honestly. I always have overlords and scourge and I always see that but sometimes scourge get bugged , he microes it , or I do some unlucky mistake so he can sneak 1 hex out of vision and I loose that expo . Scourge aren`t 100 % save . Always have them tho.

You may keep lings somewhere close enough, you may do 2 sunkens ( I do it usually but this hurts )

- Never fear fcken terran. When u see opportunity , go engage. When he`s greedy n00$*#$&(*( fu()*$#)*&*@$ IE pushes u with unsieged tanks ( lol I always get mad then ) then engage and kill. Fcken terran.

- Its all about few things - your 3rd timing and your hive timing + your eco. This is related to his push timing. You must survive his midgame push. It usually comes when his first vessel is out ( but many terrans win cuz they are fuckin no skill newbs and go out before that ^^ )

Kill push = gg. Unless he fucked your eco significantly .

To kill push - learn how many, when and what units u need to kill it. Usually 10-14 lurks + shitload of ling and your mutas + good control. Always delay his push. Unsieged tank = u can engage.

Siege tank push - back your lurks a bit few times to get u time. Time works for u there. Then let him get in a place where he can`t escape from , its your nat and its your expo with 2 lurks on choke. Then sandwich him

This way u kill that push and win the game pretty much , most case.
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3 months ago
#4

Kakashi

   1
Btw how much time it took you to write this post ? Imo its more helpful to go play that time instead of writing ;) Unless u have something u rly can`t get over

I used to read alot, write a lot , watch a lot and play not so much and this sux, waste of time if u wanna get better.
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3 months ago
#5

gNs.I-Ahzz

   6
Btw how much time it took you to write this post ? Imo its more helpful to go play that time instead of writing ;) Unless u have something u rly can`t get over

I used to read alot, write a lot , watch a lot and play not so much and this sux, waste of time if u wanna get better.

Believe it or not, if you put your thought on the game and figure out exactly whats wrong and right, you learn the fastest. You learn more than a few games.

I know a dude who got B- on icc in 3 months because he talked a lot, studied, and of course played. But the biggest thing without a doubt was talk/studying with a good teacher ooa.

I was able to make one zerg from D to C in 1 month.
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3 months ago
#6

Killer[1]

   2
First of all thanks to everyone for the information!

Now, it actually didn't take me that much time. Second, there comes a time when you've played enough games for the day and feel that writing your problems down makes you feel better. I know that just reading all that stuff you write won't make me instantly better but helps in the process of playing (read Introduction).

I think one of the most helpful things was that when I played vs Protoss I fould a guy on iccup and we played a lot. All that switching of tactics and stuff just prepared me for a big boost in stats.

So, gNs.I-Ahzz is there any way you could help me get atleast D+? How exactly did you get that zerg C (sounds impossible)? Do you know how to play Terran and Protoss good? Anyway I play with the nick TM-Killer1- or Killer[1] on ICCUP. But I use the first one when I train vs Terran. Would love to bump into you on ICCUP.
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3 months ago
#7

Killer[1]

   2
OK! I'm getting back to that phase where I'm pissed.

It's so easy for f**king terran. I mean what is the use of mutalisks when they don't keep the terran in his base. I just can't put my expands as it is pretty much clear for terran where I'm going to put it and either sends an SCV early on to stop later my exp or sends his army in the time i don't have mutalisks.

Just look at this replay. The terran is toying with me:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7NPHU7W0

I mean he just walks around with MnM and I can't do shit. And I'm pretty sure I got the mutas as fast as I could. There is no way I could attack his army direct. I tried a counter in his base but it didn't work out as well. SCV have almost the strength of a zergling and bunkers and stuff (cliffs).

Where did I go wrong!?!?!?!?!?!

P.S. I hate it when I write "1v1 ZvT D" and then either C/B player enter or a D player enters, kicks my ass, I ask him for his real level and he says "D+".
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3 months ago
#8

Kakashi

   1

Believe it or not, if you put your thought on the game and figure out exactly whats wrong and right, you learn the fastest. You learn more than a few games.

I know a dude who got B- on icc in 3 months because he talked a lot, studied, and of course played. But the biggest thing without a doubt was talk/studying with a good teacher ooa.

I was able to make one zerg from D to C in 1 month.


I did like this ( without any teachers or even practice partners tho ) and it was rly slow. I was somehow playing 2-3 games in 3 hours and this wasn`t good a at all. Better to think for a minute about the game , just watch the replay as fast as u possible without loosing the view of the game and go play another , without previous mistakes imo ^^
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2 months ago
#9

falcon29

   1
(I'm responding after watching reply #7 replay)

The only way to completely dominate in any game as a zerg or other is to constantly build units. I often saw excess larvae laying around. Besides that, good job. I suggest that next time, after that first attack, if you spot only 1 or 2 factories, but 4 or more barracks then just go for guardians as your main force. Use lurkers/ sunkens to protect your base if they decide to m & m you. Keep around 4 more mutalisks with the guards just in case some of your guards die or air attack comes. (There for extra guards or devourers.) Anyway, while you're attacking make zerglings. Attack with the guards somewhere in between their choke and side or attack their closest expo. Once you broke a bunker or something holding you back send the zerglings. And if you didn't, hotkey your hatches to build units faster and more frequently. Well, thats what I do and seems to usually work. Good Luck.
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2 months ago
#10

Tavo_Nova

   2
hmmm i do advice you to use f2-f4 use them on place where you have lots of hatchery and use your hotkeys on units. you can use guardians as snipers too, also with defilers swarm and plague is a must, you can just plague terrans ass then sent in some ultras and some few mutas to pick em off 1 by 1 then he'd be running with his tails between his legs, actually this i something i didn't like when zerg do it to me lol XP, but in my case i normally pressure zergs economy so he wont be able to pull it out fast, so maybe you should do the same, the only advantage terran has for scouting is scan, which zerg didn't have, but with zerg defilers you can just consume some small units then boom another swarm then when hes trying to run awway plague the bejesus out of his face, then fuck his army with mutas fucking of his units 1 by 1 so lets say there are medics but if you did flank his shit out then i'd say his penis is long gone

edit: oh yeah and try to expand,make army when hes in a tight spot and also harass him oh not sexual harassment though,
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2 months ago
#11

arb

   1
Keys to success :

1 : open muta kill scvs/contain
2 : get main
3 : lurker contain
4 : pull back 2 inches when he attacks you with his tank
5 : get defilers
6 : get ultralisks
7 : ??????
8 : PROFIT!
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