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Forums \ Strategic forum \ 3 hatch!
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3 months ago

mairush
3 hatch! (703 reads, 22 replies)
okay i have a question that i have come accross from watching reps, in the korean seem the 3 hatch b4 pool seems to be very common and it must be very effecitve or they would not be doing this (i know it gives u more economic power) now for the foriegn seen we seem to like the hatch at natural and then pool, then to 3rd hatch and my question is y? i belive it would be more safe oviously to do 2 hatch then pool between 3rd but y do we feel this is nessesary, are we more conservative than the korean players or do we not feel the need, or is the 3 hatch not as useful as it seems

i would also like to know when a 3 hatch is most useful, on a larger map i supposed or even could it be pulled off on a map like bluestorm (i think not even with good scouting and delay) and which race does is help with most (vs T or P)

thx inadvance
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3 months ago
#1

barnbum

   3
Jeez I'd like to help but unfortunately I haven't a clue. Well maybe one.



It's possible that due to the high grade scouting and fast response times seen in pro games, it is possible to detect and react to a rush against a 3 hatch and defeat it badly.

The less the skills of the players, the more likely a rush is to succeed. It will be detected later and responded to slowly.

I've seen pros skate on the thinnest of ice... I think I saw a 5 hatch build once, but the guy was watching things like the distance between the various expansions and enemy development, and I suppose he was keeping larvae in hand for mass unit creation if necessary. Not sure when the pool went in but he had 5 hatches finished, a pool, and drones at one point. Nothing else.
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3 months ago
#2

champignones

   3
i think against p if he fast expo , but depends thou , some FE come with a pylon in your base and cannon behind the mineral patch. but if he tech to sair without making too much zealots you can do it, so you must be pretty awear of what he will do in other to respond accordinglly, but that depends also of the map. if you see a 2 gate in a small map i dont recommend you to do that , its pretty obvious why.i have tried that strat also but got killed everytime i use it, obviously i am not a damm korean pro gamer.
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3 months ago
#3

mairush

   2
okay, what i was meaing in general is that the koreans seem to use 3 hatch no pool as a starter often, we foreingers do the 12 hatch 11 pool 14 hatch, they go 3 hatch no pool and i was just wondering y i dont c this done in our foreign socitey, it seems usful but we dont use it
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3 months ago
#4

iMp-memoRable

   5
Hmm haven`t seen 3 hatch no pool. The regular BO from Korean zergs I`ve had seen is Hatch/Pool/Hatch not Hatch/Hatch/Pool
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3 months ago
#5

Eddie_Tyler

   2
I rarely see a pool after 3 hatch. It's almost always there, perhaps you just miss the part when they're putting it down, because the vods are not showing that part. And pros can make that 3rd hatch really damn fast, maybe that confused you.
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3 months ago
#6

baboKeisari

   6
I havent seen that strat very often but my friend who plays zerg used to do that vs me.. He must have picked that up from somewhere I guess. :)
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3 months ago
#7

iMp-memoRable

   5
3 hat no pool is only used agains toss that goes FE with no cannons or gate. It builds you a solid eco and ussually it ends with mas hydra with dual evo chambers. Early ranged hydra harrasment followed by a massive attack.
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3 months ago
#8

psilver

   1
Sure there can be cannons #7 but you need to be sure that he really is going FE.. If he scouts you going dualexp before pool P will most commonly have forge already and go directly gate and core without any cannons. But if you scout nex, forge and a couple of cannons, its ok to do dualexp before pool.
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3 months ago
#9

iMp-memoRable

   5
If he has only nex and make 1 or 2 gates after he`s saw your dual exp with no pool. by the time he has 1-2 zaeals you`ll have 3 popped hatcheries and pool ready. that mass ling will 100% stop him. It will be quite sad if he try some kind of cannon rush or smth like that and succeed... T_T anyways I don`t see other situation for 3 hatch with no pool BO
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3 months ago
#10

sayja

   2
early scout and its quite safe
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3 months ago
#11

barnbum

   3
I just took a look through my archive and it seems a TvZ build that goes hach-hatch-pool-hatch is quite common. I did not see any hatch-hatch-hatch builds.
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3 months ago
#12

iMp-memoRable

   5
indeed... most of the zergs play hatch/hatch/pool/hatch. Probably some zergs play it the same BO but the hatch after the pool is hidden gas expo
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3 months ago
#13

Psycho_Gemni

   1
Weird, I feel like I see hatch/hatch/pool a lot in professional TvZ games and pro replays, but then I checked my own replay database and I didn't see a SINGLE build that went like it. Probably because I only have about 40 pro TvZ replays though =/ idk.
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3 months ago
#14

mairush

   2
im telling you i c this happen many time in the pro korean sence, also reps i watch i listening to klazart so he says there build adn i watch and i c 3 hatch then pool, watch some pro korean zergs
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3 months ago
#15

mairush

   2
2008-08-26 14:27:19, Psycho_Gemni wrote:
Weird, I feel like I see hatch/hatch/pool a lot in professional TvZ games and pro replays, but then I checked my own replay database and I didn't see a SINGLE build that went like it. Probably because I only have about 40 pro TvZ replays though =/ idk.


and are u agreeing with me? i hope so, also savior was made this build famous 3 hatch and it was a unconstested build for quite a while
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3 months ago
#16

barnbum

   3
Interesting. Bear in mind my archive includes only 5 pro Zerg games, all quite recent, and all vs Terran. So what I see there is about 50% hatch-hatch-pool-hatch builds, and mostly on python or blue storm.
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3 months ago
#17

tellur_m4dC

   3
I've never ever seen a single rep where this build could be built. But I think I've seen about 3 VODs where they started hatch/hatch/hatch/pool. But anyways, if I would be zerg in ZvP I would sacrifice my overlord(even if I have to and btw you will have one at toss' base surely at least on maps like Blue Storm or Tau Cross xD). So I can see he's going 2gate or tech. And if there is cannons+forge(no gate) you can safely do the hatch/hatch/hatch/pool build.
In ZvT I don't know, IMO hatch/hatch/hatch/pool is good response to 1rax FE. o.O
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3 months ago
#18

dOnT-pAniC

   2
I really didnt undarstood what you meant - 3 hatch at main or 2 hatch at main and one at exp or 1 at main, and 2 exps? Going 3 hatch b4 pool = instant suicide if you play zvz/zvt. Even if ur opponent goes fe. I do it only in pvz when the toss player goes fe. 12 exp, 15 exp, 18 pool, and you have countered his build. Rofl its common to do hatch hatch than pool in tvz? And when the t sees you have no pool he would come w/ 2 marines and own the crap out of you, even if goes fe. Its only doable in pvz if toss fe's, or if your t or z opponent is a newbie, who would cannon up and go battlecruisers/guardians or some shit like that.
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3 months ago
#19

HeyitsClay

   3
vs P i 3 hatch over 80% of the time seems toss FE, you can even get away with 4 hatch alot of time vs lower skill players

vs Z 3 hatch never will happen

vs T if i see 1 rax if i scout him first i will sometimes go 3 hatch before pool, but its still risky
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3 months ago
#20

mairush

   2
okay let me refraze this cuz u are getting me wrong, first off i not talking about an all time build, in zvz hell no ofc it zvt yes it can be done but on larger map and good scout, (u dont do it if u c a build that could be chessesy/early push) and zvp ofc it can me done cuz most toss for forge then nexus cannon no gate so u can get away

also what i mean is normal build drone to 12 then hatch at expo then now insted of pool u put another hatch down ANYWHERE u want at expo and nat or in base like a standard hatch pool hatch build, now after that is down u make ur pool. u said vs a T this is stupid, well most T fe so u agian are safe, also by the time he comes to ur base wit a force u got 3 hatch pumping lings/drones and a wicked economy, i know what i am talking bout i was just wondering why foreing zergs (mondi, dinot, castro, incontrol) dont seem to do this, we go the standard hatch pool hatch, while in korea people like savior, jaedong and luxury do at times hatch hatch pool (not all the time but often enough) and they also do the hatch pool hatch.

if this is still not clear plz tell me and i will try to make it more understandable, i will also get some reps of a 3 hatch going down
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