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Forums \ StarCraft II Forum \ why the new interface will help the game
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3 months ago

phoniexrisen
why the new interface will help the game (2723 reads, 62 replies)
I just got done reading the eternally long thread about someone complaining about the new features and how its not fair that when sc 2 comes out it will level the playing field.

First off whats so wrong with at the very beginning a lot of players find a diffrent game and have to learn new skills and prove once again that they are the best in the world . This will be good becuase it will level the mid range where a opponent doesn't beat you any more because he has been playing starcraft since the orginal came out . Sounds like a lot of people are just unhappy that the time they put in will make it hard to be dominant still .
If you are truly as good as you say you are then the cream will again rise to the top.

Starcraft is about a mental game on strategy and timing not how well you can manage some little workers . Macro is a valid strategy and folks will still have to be producing workers the whole time but now you can do it even between fights and like someone said pros late game once each worker is on a mineral patch of their own dont micro manage the rest .

Blizzard is obviosly looking at the whole idea of the game growing bigger than the cult following it has now . The best one to do this is to implement what is going on with korea where it is a telvised show that millions watch. NOw ask yourself in the states do you think someone is going to want to watch starcraft over say sunday football or the newest episode of LOst if were not gonna empasize more the exciting combat and strategy . Mining minerals and highlighting this as a fact of incredible human skill is like watching some guy paint a house , doesnt matter how expert a job he does , doesnt matter how he is the most skilled in the world , its just a brush , just some paint and unless your a painter you just find this boring.

But take chess it is way more popular than starcraft ever has been as a legitimate strategy game becuase most people consider it a battle of great minds. If we had some great emphasis on some guy who not only plays master chess but makes his own pieces to play with before ever match no one is gonna care. THe average viewer wants to see something interesting and the whole idea of the competiveness of who can mine minerals better is never gonna be entertaining .

THe game will shift a litte bit more towards micro but this will be good for it overall , yes the guys who are amazing at the equivalent of making little furniture out of toothpicks will get shafted a bit but hey as human beings we can choose to concenterate at becoming incredible at picking our nose but nobody will ever tune in to watch that .


Me personally i would rather see the winner be who has the most strategic mind not who can push buttons on a keyboard faster .
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3 months ago
#1

hiflier

   1
and i would rather see the winner who has the most strategic mind and who can push buttons on a keybord fast as hell. (as it is now)

if we would wont more micro game we would have played wc3 instead of sc.

sc was somewhat more balanced with micro and macro. look what bwchart says 100 micro and 100 macro. (or even more) 200 apm


and about the cult. well i think that sc is behind because of graphic. 10 years make a difference.

i accept automining, and multiselecting units. i'm against mbs. that's all.

but i think that we should give blizzard a time and see the outcome
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3 months ago
#2

phoniexrisen

   1
Yes i understand where your coming from but is it possible that a portion of macro skills were only developed because the games interface is now out of date . My point was getting good at something does not make it valuable .
Learning to do half of macro will not do much for you in other life pursuits , at least with micro and decison making you are using your brain for someting other than micro managing little mineral gatherers. Let the game be about choices and combat. Real wars are fought by generals and bean counters but only the generals get the glory and are the only ones intresting to watch.
Let the master builders switch over to say sim cities maybe they could have world championships for that game. The great macro masters could all go play sim cities and build away.
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3 months ago
#3

Get.Yourgun

   9

Me personally i would rather see the winner be who has the most strategic mind not who can push buttons on a keyboard faster .


Did you just say that? You think that what's its all about in Starcraft? Pushing buttons??? OMG!!! Ofc not! its about doing lots of stuff at same time, micro management, macro management etc.
I mean CMON!
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3 months ago
#4

Get.Yourgun

   9
APM don't mean so much. What's wrong with you?!? You are just so got damn wrong man.
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3 months ago
#5

349191

   4
#4 It says alot of someone has 120 EAPM or 200+ EAPM
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3 months ago
#6

Get.Yourgun

   9
I dont think so.
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3 months ago
#7

phoniexrisen

   1
NOt saying its only about pushing buttons faster the pros know the game but if you really look at the top players even , what some incorectly call genius is not real all that much strategicaly its just being able to succesfully get your units to be able to do what you want them to. THis is not tatical skill this is keyboard and mouse skill there is a definable diffrence from say this and say chess on a grandmaster level. How many of the worlds top ten starcraft players would be say even be in the middle ranks when it comes to a game like chess. Building mutas faster than your opponent can get the suitable counter is of course strategy but is it genius ? NO it's not . Maybe this is why we see mostly players under 30 in the top 25 . What is it with this game that you dont see anyone over that age thriving. Maybe skill at the keyboard and mouse is what really seperates the pros apart as well as reacting to their opponents build.

SC2 will offer more exciting and more tatically strategic elements becasue yes there will still be fast hotkeying but we will also see more complex level of attacks hopefully. Pros attacking even more than one base at a time from two or three directions at once . Then maybe we can start looking at this on the level of chess. If a person got one base all buildings and then had to choose what to build and what to upgrade then it would truly be on the level of grandmaster chess. But when wins come becuase someone built their mutas faster that is not genius that is just keyboard and mouse skill.

Dont mistake genius for economy of motion
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3 months ago
#8

hiflier

   1
yes sbs (interface out of date) develope more macro but you say that in macro you're not making decisions? you dont choose which unit u need right now or when can you expand?

i dont really understand what you're talking about. i just dont see the point.

micro = more brain usage?

still more micro is something more wc3 looking thing.

if u want to use a brain play chess


well in my opinion you can create a game where you need a fast fingers and a lot of thinking. sc is an example.

i'm waiting for reply xd


well xd chess cannot be compared to any computer game. sorry;]

even when youll be able to attack from 3 different directions it will come to how fast you can give orders. there will be not as much thinking as in chess xd
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3 months ago
#9

phoniexrisen

   1
all i am really saying it is such a waste of time and human potetional to get where you are in top tier of guys who can hotkey worker every 14 secs then hokey base put him on minerals. This needs to change its such a useless outdated skill. Back to nosepicking who cares if you can do this better than the other guy. Maybe the under twenty something koreans mastered this because it was necessary not that it makes any sense . ITs good that blizzard is finally getting rid of such a useless human ablity.
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3 months ago
#10

hiflier

   1
well i agree with you in 50% maybe xd i would like to see nexus with automining you build a probe and it goes right to the minerals. but it does not change this much in game.

if it would be only an intelectual game it will look like chess. and we dont need two versions of the same thing.

starcraft is about fast decision making. fast clicking fast thinking. but the top players shouldnt be required to be good at chess at the same time.

it's like requiring from i dont know swimmer that he will knew a shit about physics.


because chess (mind strategic game) and computer games will never be the same
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3 months ago
#11

phoniexrisen

   1
THis is true good point about chess and computer games never be the same thing becuase of the fact chess already has a set number of pieces or units to start with and you get no more. Maybe right now Macro plays too much a part and with starcraft 2 we will start to see micro shine a bit. IM sorry but as far as human skills are concerned the amazing micro player having to use what is present in the most effecient way and then create complex tatics is way more useful in life than some guy who can get more minerals and gas the fastest.

It's not a matter of unit choices to build that part of macro is strategic it's just making it complicated to get that money having some sort of a mini game involved within the larger game is not strategic it is just dumb.

you make worker you made a choice that you needed that worker it should come and out get to work efficiently , picking where it will go to get the most efficiency is just silly and outdated and so glad it will no longer be around.
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3 months ago
#12

champignones

   3
first of all, you need skills to play sc , apm isnt important at all the importance is what do you do with the time that its given to you ( sound like LOTR) and thats what is important, savior had low apm and he was the best about a year or 2 , so that show that he doesnt had "sick fingers" or whatsoever, and about macroing, i think macro and micro are both part of the strategy, if yu want to kill a unit you must figure out the more efficient way to kill it, if you want to kill your opponent you must manage your economy correctly and with timing to be able kill the other guy , and about putting scvs to the mineral paths well it depends also cause you must at least have a decent base management(multitasking) to keep your army moving, cause a strategist must know when to sent their workers to collect and where and how. i know what you mean what you dont want is that sc2 become like 3d bw and all the pros from bw became easilly pro at sc2, you want like a start form zero, but the fact is that players who played scbw ( or at least touched the cd ) will have a little advantage at sc2 that the one who havent, and that cant be denied.
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3 months ago
#13

versago

 (Replay management - SC)   8
Actually SC is about time management. Micro, macro, and strategy make you juggle a series of tasks around to the limit of your multi-tasking ability.

Plus, if you really want to play a game purely based on strategy, go play turn-based games instead.
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3 months ago
#14

GooseBoy

   3
I think you guys dont get the point. SPEED MATTERS, but the issue here is WHERE do whe put our Speed. And putting our speed on clicking and worker splitting is almost so useless. I mean, you only need to click units once to select them, and you dont need to assign hotkey to a building more than once.

But then again, some people just do that to mantain the pace of their speed and / or to warm up.
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3 months ago
#15

woowoo

   1
Strategy is about choices, the new interface doesn't make these choices for you, it decreases the number of click needed.
Noobs won't beat veterans because they won't have the experience to make the rights choices and if some players use the same strategy speed will be the key to victory.
A very competitive game will always push players to their limits, chess do (humans vs super calculators?), FPS do, it's all about the players.
The interface of brood war require tens of actions for one choice while the SC2 interface require just one. It doesn't mean you'll have time to rest, you will scout more, multi task your attacks, etc.

edit: Speed matters in Chess competition, time is points, think about chess players like Kasparov, he was able to defeat DeepBlue, this computer could see millions of moves in a second and Kasparov was faster.
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3 months ago
#16

phoniexrisen

   1
does anyone know how the auto mining will work , can you just put rally point from nexus , hatch command center on minerals and the workers will be smart enough to find good pathing ? From the vids ive seen of first matches it looks like they are mining pretty effeciently . Again you will still be making choices of when to expand ect . BUt then again dont most ppl at high level expand most of the time at the same time if possible. I dont mind having to hotkey nexus every fourteen seconds to make worker if it will go where its supposed to.

Also has anybody heard when being able to group units will be able to tab thru them like you can do in wc 3 ?
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3 months ago
#17

phoniexrisen

   1
The thing im worried about with seeing the game footage released is visiblity of units. THey almost seem to big and bigger units like battle cruiser obsecure smaller units when above them . I look at games in direct competition with sc 2 and the units even the super ones are a lot smaller l,talkinga about red alert 3 and dawn of war 2 . These two games you see neither making workers theyre econonmy system is a lot more streamlined and makes more sense than current brood wars does. You also see higher levels of combat strategy going on as well. REd alert 3 every unit has primary and secondary attack.

Why did they get rid of the ghost using drop pods ? and no more mind control two elements that made the gaem that much deeper.
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3 months ago
#18

ETBrooD

   2
OP you don't know SC if you don't believe it's the most strategic video game of all time. The reason progamers own everyone is that they make the best strategic decisions and their hand skills only adds to that. So please, sit back and think about it before you make ridiculous statements about how so many people want SC2 to be a clickfest. We want it to be just as strategic as SC but we also want the clickfest that SC is on top level (and only on top level!).
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3 months ago
#19

Zoler

   2
Starcraft has only been popular in 8-10 years as a sport. Give it as much time as football and chess and it will surely be much more popular, no doubt.
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3 months ago
#20

XyreX

   4
2008-08-21 15:36:08, Zoler wrote:
Starcraft has only been popular in 8-10 years as a sport. Give it as much time as football and chess and it will surely be much more popular, no doubt.


lol? it´s not like the number of sc players are raising nowaday, give starcraft a 100 year and it will almost for sure be dead.
btw chess is not really a that big "sport" its mostly played for fun.
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