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Forums \ Strategic forum \ my horrible tvp
3 months ago

Lim.Yo.Hwan

my horrible tvp (395 reads, 17 replies)
so i started playing tvp and i am horrible with tvp. i dont know any of the timings and just plain suck at vult tank micro.

in this replay, i have some sad attempt of Fake Double and i get owned by the toss who went 2 gate expo. i run around with my vults whatever and mass up again. the toss attacks and i only save myself through use of scvs and i mass up again until i gt 2 CG of vults
and 1 CG of tanks. i die again and its gg.

PLEASE HELP MY CRAP TVP!

my vult tanks micro is crap. i lose battles i should win.
i dont know the timings for the buildings or for attacks.
any thing i can improve on?

REPLAY!

http://screplays.info/files/152364368/1.rep
Quote  
 

3 months ago
#1

LML

(Forum moderator)   18
if you don't know the timings, watch reps;o
easiest way to learn it, and then to perform it yourself, getting the feeling for it.
Scouting is also pretty important, don't unsiege to move out while P is on the way of the atk, he will hit your weak.
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3 months ago
#2

Lim.Yo.Hwan

  1
2008-08-16 21:59:47, LML wrote:
if you don't know the timings, watch reps;o
easiest way to learn it, and then to perform it yourself, getting the feeling for it.
Scouting is also pretty important, don't unsiege to move out while P is on the way of the atk, he will hit your weak.


but if i dont attack, he wont attack.
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3 months ago
#3

hanhcom

  2
i watched the reply and i see lots of stuffs i lilke to straighthen out. i donlt talk about strategy and timing and map control stuffs...

1. you have problem with BO.
2. u scout too late.
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so now, here are some of my advice.
0. search on the forum some terran guide, read it back and forth ~ 10 times
1. download reps of good player and watch.
(things u need to learn while watching rep is learn BO (build order) try to copy the exact opening BO . then learn how to move groups of unit, how to spread tanks, how to use vul to mine..... )
2. get on ICCUP and play (forget about losing or winning)
3. watch your own reps to see how you do compare to other good player's rep.
...................
....................
...................

Last one, the one and the only way to get better is Practice. no other way.
GG GL HF
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3 months ago
#4

Silverleaves

  2
The Protoss did a 12 nexus and you didn't punish him or expand yourself.

After that he got more expansions than you and you didn't expand. Both of you lost your armies but he rebuilt his faster and in the end he won with his expansions.

I won't say anything more because TvP not a match up that I know well but that look like a standard P>T game with macro.
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3 months ago
#5

_AiR_

  1
I did not watch the replay as I dont have time but here is my advice.
If your micro is poor or you have trouble multi tasking, and you do an FD or 1 fac expo build, dont attack. Im not sure if you did but it can be safer not to if your unsure of your multitasking skills, and 2 gate range beats FD 90% of the time.

Mine everything. Just send like 3-4 vults out and mine places you think he will go, and places you dont want him to go, and anywhere else with left over mines. Mines will give you vision of his army and can get you a few kills.

When you move out make sure you dont get flanked. On python I suggest following cliffs to his base if you dont have superior army or mine wall.

You really cant sit in your base. The only time you can is if you attempt a timing push build but other than that (you said your timings suck) just keep your macro low and harrass, pressure, and get expoes. Use vultures as distractions to get tanks set up, if you get caught running around with your tanks unseiged then thats horrible.

watch replays and practice.

GL
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3 months ago
#6

Zoler

  2
If he does 12 nexus you need to rush early to make him pay by losing probes.

And you need to slow push, "leap-frogging" the tanks, I think its called. Unsiege half of the tanks, move them forward, siege, repeat the process until you are at the protoss main.
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3 months ago
#7

Shobolanu[5thF]

  3
This comment has been censored ("nuked") by the GosuGamers Crew.
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3 months ago
#8

Silverleaves

  2
#7 He's asking for help and not for meaningless comments.
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3 months ago
#9

fym.lpjuunin

  1
2008-08-17 01:01:38, Zoler wrote:
If he does 12 nexus you need to rush early to make him pay by losing probes.

And you need to slow push, "leap-frogging" the tanks, I think its called. Unsiege half of the tanks, move them forward, siege, repeat the process until you are at the protoss main.


Yup, leapfrogging also works well with lurkers; pretty much any unit that requires long durations of both "activation" and "deactivation". Unseiged/unburrowed tanks/lurks are vulnerable to surprise pushes, but the other half that is still seiged/burrowed covers them from being harmed any furthur.

And #7, I'm guessing you can do better in a TvP?
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3 months ago
#10

Pulimuli

  6
#7 manner plz?

dont post at all if you're about to flame him for his skill level, he said he was bad at TvP
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3 months ago
#11

Lim.Yo.Hwan

  1
2008-08-17 01:31:35, Shobolanu[5thF] wrote:
after i watched the replay i mailed it to blizzard... they were so shocked about ur skill that they said u'll get banned for being too noob omfg


how i feel about your post.
<=D
=D
=)
=]
=l
=(
>=(
=::(
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3 months ago
#12

Shobolanu[5thF]

  3
c'mon it was just a joke tt
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3 months ago
#13

E

  1
Your scouting was insufficient the entire game, use mines and scans to see when and where he expands, and also scan his base for gateway count, tech, etc. And your first scv scout was way too late.
Your opening was not a good response to a 12 nexus, in fact it probably was amongst the worst possible. In my experience the best counter to 12 nex on those kind of maps is a scv + marine bunker rush, (but time that 2nd depot better)
Skip that first tank and just build vults and upgrade mines first. Vult drop might also be very strong if he doesnt build any cannons in his main.
The problem is that you pretty much played as if he played some standard 2 gate, core, nexus build, and that gave him a huge advantage from the start.

He gave you a chance to come back in the game though by that attack on your choke that was a total disaster for him, but micro mistakes on your part when you moved out made him get away with it.


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3 months ago
#14

Lim.Yo.Hwan

  1
2008-08-17 18:02:52, E wrote:
Your scouting was insufficient the entire game, use mines and scans to see when and where he expands, and also scan his base for gateway count, tech, etc. And your first scv scout was way too late.
Your opening was not a good response to a 12 nexus, in fact it probably was amongst the worst possible. In my experience the best counter to 12 nex on those kind of maps is a scv + marine bunker rush, (but time that 2nd depot better)
Skip that first tank and just build vults and upgrade mines first. Vult drop might also be very strong if he doesnt build any cannons in his main.
The problem is that you pretty much played as if he played some standard 2 gate, core, nexus build, and that gave him a huge advantage from the start.

He gave you a chance to come back in the game though by that attack on your choke that was a total disaster for him, but micro mistakes on your part when you moved out made him get away with it.





so how should i micro my army? is the terran supposed to be on the defensive or the offensive?
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3 months ago
#15

E

  1

so how should i micro my army?


When moving your tanks, its important to know where toss army is, and plant mines on your flanks if they are threatened. Never have unsieged tanks out in the field when you have a black area on the map right next to them. Here he managed to get a quite perfect flank on your tanks with a group of zealots. When zeals are amongst your sieged tanks, make sure your vults take them out asap (dts and hts have higher priority though), and dont let tanks fire at will, but target goons or other units at some distance (shift-click units in center of clumps). When facing hts (as you did here) or arbiters, try to avoid clumping up your tanks like that.


is the terran supposed to be on the defensive or the offensive?


Depends on how you mean, please elaborate the question.. in general the terran of course wants to force battles where he is in defensive position (sieged tanks, mines planted, turrets up), the more battles like this the closer the t will get to victory, as the toss in general loses so much more resources in these fights.


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3 months ago
#16

Lim.Yo.Hwan

  1
2008-08-17 20:02:42, E wrote:

so how should i micro my army?


When moving your tanks, its important to know where toss army is, and plant mines on your flanks if they are threatened. Never have unsieged tanks out in the field when you have a black area on the map right next to them. Here he managed to get a quite perfect flank on your tanks with a group of zealots. When zeals are amongst your sieged tanks, make sure your vults take them out asap (dts and hts have higher priority though), and dont let tanks fire at will, but target goons or other units at some distance (shift-click units in center of clumps). When facing hts (as you did here) or arbiters, try to avoid clumping up your tanks like that.


is the terran supposed to be on the defensive or the offensive?


Depends on how you mean, please elaborate the question.. in general the terran of course wants to force battles where he is in defensive position (sieged tanks, mines planted, turrets up), the more battles like this the closer the t will get to victory, as the toss in general loses so much more resources in these fights.





like i mean should the terran be constantly trying to push their way and pressure the toss or should they be more passive and try to just sit back and wait for the toss to come to him?
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3 months ago
#17

E

  1
2008-08-17 20:54:51, m_m wrote:
2008-08-17 20:02:42, E wrote:

so how should i micro my army?


When moving your tanks, its important to know where toss army is, and plant mines on your flanks if they are threatened. Never have unsieged tanks out in the field when you have a black area on the map right next to them. Here he managed to get a quite perfect flank on your tanks with a group of zealots. When zeals are amongst your sieged tanks, make sure your vults take them out asap (dts and hts have higher priority though), and dont let tanks fire at will, but target goons or other units at some distance (shift-click units in center of clumps). When facing hts (as you did here) or arbiters, try to avoid clumping up your tanks like that.


is the terran supposed to be on the defensive or the offensive?


Depends on how you mean, please elaborate the question.. in general the terran of course wants to force battles where he is in defensive position (sieged tanks, mines planted, turrets up), the more battles like this the closer the t will get to victory, as the toss in general loses so much more resources in these fights.





like i mean should the terran be constantly trying to push their way and pressure the toss or should they be more passive and try to just sit back and wait for the toss to come to him?


You should pressure as much as you can given the current situation (relative army strength), and this will depend on how your play as well as the toss' (meaning the better scout info you have the greater your chance of making good decisions). One extreme is to expand and upgrade as quickly as possible with 0 pressure on the toss other than to defend your exps, and the other to just have as many factories and pump as many units your eco can support with max pressure.
And pressure doesnt need to mean pushing, it can also be more of a harrass style with more vults and/or dropships.
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