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Forums \ Strategic forum \ TvP No Wall vs Zelot Goon rush
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3 months ago

GambitVII
TvP No Wall vs Zelot Goon rush (1079 reads, 43 replies)
i cant seem to ever stop this. and i want to be able to do it without walling

http://screplays.info/files/674.rep

I can attack with scv's I know, but once drgoons come in it seems impossible.

I mean, when the first zelot attacks with a probe its like wtf its hard enough to kill a zelot.

At this point it seems gg no matter what.
Plz, reps with a solution or solution to this attack

I know i have to make marines as well constantly. but think aobut it, if the opponent also constantly makes units at the same rate that you do, what can u possibly do if toss is so durable? i mean attacking them with scv's means im losing minnerals and workers.

I feel like toss can take advantage of terrans the first 10 min wayyy too easily.

~GambitVII
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3 months ago
#1

dannymicro

   1
i didnt watch the rep, but u need to wall vs p, its a must if you dont p can take advantage of u very easily
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3 months ago
#2

349191

   4
2008-08-12 07:28:56, DannyMicrO wrote:
u need to wall vs p


wrong, wrong, wrong



Once the zeal arrive you have ALTEAST 2 marines and then its easy to out micro it, run with 1 marine and shoot with the other. Or run with the scv he is hunting the zeal should not be able to get more then one scv as best.
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3 months ago
#3

GambitVII

   1
thats not really the issue, tis the probe+ the dragoons the follow up. goons come up faster than tanks.
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3 months ago
#4

349191

   4
Then keep build about 5-6 rines. They should be able to fend of any goons untill you get your first tank up.
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3 months ago
#5

Economist_

   1
Try to hang on until your vulture coming out. P always tries to kill scv building factory first. SO always replace the dead one with the new scv. Once vul comes out then you can handle those Zs easily.
For safety reason, do wall properly if you can
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3 months ago
#6

Trizzek

   8
No wall? Well, put down a Bunker then.
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3 months ago
#7

GambitVII

   1
2008-08-12 09:11:10, Economist_ wrote:
Try to hang on until your vulture coming out. P always tries to kill scv building factory first. SO always replace the dead one with the new scv. Once vul comes out then you can handle those Zs easily.
For safety reason, do wall properly if you can



i wish it there was an easy choice for zeal plus good counter without being slowed down too much with the use of scvs


bunker sounds nice
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3 months ago
#8

080485

   11
Few marines and your all safe...atleast you should be.
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3 months ago
#9

(rs)Inferno

   5
3 marines should kill zealoth without loses if u have decent micro , u dont really need extra scvs vs zealoth maintain your eco and try to not lose SCV whitch is building your factory

in the end if you have 3 marines alive you should be able to defend at choke point if u lost some or you have almost dead marines add new ones up to 4


also try to build ur building smart way so you can micro around em zealoth is small unit yet he cant pass every little hole like marines

check some vods at youtube there should be plenty of such rushes perfermed and defended by progamers :)
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3 months ago
#10

Eddie_Tyler

   2
You need marines if you do not want to wall. Or you can do a blockade with 2-3 scv and 2-3 rines behind them on ramp. You can even lift rax over them. Why do you cancel that rine? You need to get rid of the scouting probe as soon as you can anyway. Your bo is off a bit btw, you should do rax/gas at 11.

Try to play more and do that wall in or a bunker if you feel like you can't handle this kind of attack without these.
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3 months ago
#11

iG.MadClaw

   4
Won't look the replay, but if its a map with ramp, you can try this:
Build 2 marines, put 2 (or 3 if needed for big ramp) scv's infront of those marines at the ramp, grab all of them and press hold, place the barracks above the scvs so he cant target scv's with the zealots, then you'll get the tank in time to fight against his extention push which should be easily defended.

If the map has no ramp you simply need a good building placement, for exsample map like Blue storm at the moment has no ramp but if you place your buildings correctly, marines will get behind buildings, but zealots wont reach there and you can micro even 3 zealots easily with few marines+scv before factory builds up.
On BS wall if possible ofcourse but this fits for maps where you cant easily build a wall, for exsample Luna. And I personally defintely prefer doing this than wall, let the toss fuck up ;p
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3 months ago
#12

losso

   6
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/thread/272364
what is the difference between the two threads? they even have the same author

anyway
in the rep, you had NO micro
2 zealots killed your marines, taking nearly NO damage and THEN you pulled some scvs
your supply and factory's placement were fucking SENSELESS. your barracks was placed well (so that you can micro rines between it and the cc) but you didn't use it, not at all
your skill level is extremely low for not-walling
people who don't wall are either confident in their rine/scv micro - they are a lot better OR are UCKING RETARDS WHO ALWAYS WHINE OF LOSING TO A SINGLE ZEALOT
at your level the minus 20-30 minerals you lose by walling won't make ANY difference AT ALL so please JUST WALL IF YOU CAN'T MICRO

YOU CAN'T STOP ZEALOTS WITHOUT WALL/MICRO
and if you can micro you'll have NO PROBLEM AT ALL.. but you do.. so WALL ! WALL WALL WALL YOU DAMN *&^@#*&^*!@#

sorry for the bad tone but it feels like this is the only way you can be learnt
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3 months ago
#13

Eddie_Tyler

   2
#12: Even if it's a bit harsh.. You're right about the tone I think ;)
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3 months ago
#14

MeSaber

   1
2008-08-12 11:21:01, Trizzek wrote:
No wall? Well, put down a Bunker then.


And thats why Trizzek suck at TvP ^^
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3 months ago
#15

logain

   2
Whats the point of not walling? :p
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3 months ago
#16

Phatone

   2
This is an example of non-wall defense against a zlot without ANY micro. My marine died because I'm an idiot. Good timing was also important.

http://screplays.info/files/152319046/0072 kasdaP Vuc1b4t1n4T.rep
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3 months ago
#17

szedrus

   1
I've watched the replay. First off :

1. walling in is not only handy in the beginning but even later on because it narrows down the way into your base

2. Not walling in is for experienced players and only for certain maps, where the distance between starting locations is adequate.

IF YOU MUST WALL IN............

1. Building placement. Watch gosureps, they always construct their suppydep and barrack in such a way as to be able to hide a marine behind them.

2. Micro : self-explanatary

3. Adequate amount of marines waiting. If you do not make a wall you have to make up for the loss of this obsticle by proper amount of brute force/rines/

I think with enough rines hiding behind a well constructed base and with the use of micro you'll be able to survive, but then again, at what cost?
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3 months ago
#18

Uuub

   4
i didn't watch the replay, but from what people say. my advice is to ALWAYS, 100% wall in.... i don't get why you don't wanna wall in. makes no sense. i can survive zealot rushes ez, but sometimes they do a lot of damage to me which is bad for me especially on a map like python...

i am helping out a friend who wants to get better and he never walls in either... if he doesnt die from the zealot rush, he's way behind.

if ur not that good of a player, you must DO EVERYTHING that makes the games easier for you. until you improve, u can't say "i dont wanan wall in"
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3 months ago
#19

xyberkids

   6
1) Your particular BO is going to suffer against zealot rush, you get your barrack late, and you also get your marine late too, if the barrack delay wasn't enough. So one part of it is you're slow getting your marines.

2) The second thing is your micro is poor, 1 marine should suffice to take out one zealot, that is the reason you put your barracks like that anyway, but you didn't use it right.

3) Keep your scouting SCV alive so you can see what is coming out next, unless he has a dragoon, there is not reason your SCV should die, if he sends 2 zealots then you get vulture and then addon, if he get a goon ofcourse you get addon like usual.

4) Counter is easy, he just threw 2 zealots, hopefully you killed them without losing more than 2 marines, so you are already ahead by 200-100 minerals, unless you have bad macro. By that time you have 1 tank and a couple marines you can push him hard, heck you could even go all in + 12 SCV and win at that point, because he is so far behind. Probably the best thing to do however is upgrade mine and expand and get ebay up because often times with pro go fast zealot they are saving gas for early tech. The point is once someone is so far behind, most of the strategy goes out the window, you can do whatever you want and win so no point talking about counter, because it is just like every game except he is behind and probably teching fast.

Stopping a protoss that sends 2 zealots at you is easier than stopping a protoss that sends 1 zealot then a dragoon.

Tips:

#Hotkey everything to make microing and macroing easier, you can even hotkey marine separately at the beginning for fun :D

#Ramp block is not necessary at all against protoss, only time it is necessary is if you want to go gas heavy build, where you can't waste minerals on marine. That particular BO you were doing probably would best be done with a block.
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3 months ago
#20

barnbum

   3
I would really like to see a nice replay showing how the T micro works when that early zealot arrives. Walls leak sometimes, I'm told. Yeah, some gosu micro and gosu building placement on a really common map would be very cool to see. I'd probly watch it a dozen times.

I'm Terran, so this is must-know knowledge for me.
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