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Forums \ StarCraft Strategic forum \ [G]ZvT 3 Hatch Mutas Early Game
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iLLusioN.ReW
[G]ZvT 3 Hatch Mutas Early Game (16207 reads, 32 replies, 4 years ago)
As of 12-04-08 this guide has suffered an extreme makeover, hence most of the replies won't make any sense.


This is a guide to how to play a macro based 3 hatch mutalisk opening vs Terran fast expanders and academy rushers during the early game. There's also a very large section about early game scouting, and how to modify your build order.
The build order part applies for maps with a - not too wide - choke point
and a total of 2 gases in your main and natural together. Examples of maps where this guide applies is Longinus,Luna and Python. Examples of maps where it does not apply is Vampire (3 gases), Rush Hour (too wide choke point) and Estrella (island map).

I must stress the point that there are indeed builds meant to counter specific situations that are slightly, in some cases almost unsignificantly, better than this one. But finding out exactly how the terran is dividing his resources during late early game is one hell of a task which you probably won't succed with. And if you guess wrong, you'll fall terribly behind instead. This build is meant to give you a safe walk into the mid game and put you in a good situation no matter what he does, as long as it's some kind of fast expand into bionic. It gives you a good stamp off to abuse surperior mid- and late-game skills, if that's not your forte, you might pick a cheesier build or experiment some with lurker openings.


Build Order


9 Overlord
9 Drone Scout (Optional, and totally unnecessary on some maps, though vital on others - more on that later)
12 Hatchery
11 Spawning Pool
13-15 Hatchery (Hardly matter, I prefer 15)
If you don't drone scout: 14 Extractor. If you do drone scout: 17 Extractor
14 (13 if you didn't drone scout) Four Zerglings (that's two zerglings eggs)
16 Overlord

Somewhere in-between here you'll probably have to fit in your first creep if he went for two barracks or you don't know what he went. If he went for one barrack you're better of defending with lings - more on that later

Take the gas in your natural when you have mined 100 gas after you started your lair, also research lingspeed at the same time.

Make an overlord with the first larva from your third hatchery

28 Overlord

Make your spire asap when your lair finnishes.

35 Hydralisk Den
35 Overlord
35 Overlord
35 9 Mutas



Your next 200 gas goes into the lurker upgrade and then the next 300 minerals into an expansion. If you got away with few sunkens (1-2) you'll be able to expand before the lurker upgrade, but with 3 or more sunkens you won't and are better of making the lurker upgrade first. If you got away without a single sunken or are playing the slower, drone only version (advised vs two barack builds, more on that later) you might even get away with making your expand before your spire finnishes.

Once you've afforded the lurker upgrade and the expansion you want to make 2 hydralisks and rally them to the ramp of your expansion, and then make an overlord.

From here on your choices will be based on playstyle and what your opponent does. Good luck.

But let's move back alittle and go into the details of the very early game.

Early-game Details

When your natural expansion first finishes you only want to maynard one single drone, and that's so you can quicker build a sunken should the need arise. When your extractor finishes you'll have to pull 3 drones to it and your drone count in your main will sink to 8 or 9. From here on you can rally all hatches to the nat until you've got one drone on each mineral patch in the nat too, as well as 3-4 on the gayser. Now you can switch the main hatch's rally to the main again. In that way your drones will be equally spread out.

Rallying drones like this is slightly, maybe unsignificantly, better than maynarding them. No matter what you choose to do you will have to send the same amounts of drones to the natural and will therefore lose the same amount of mining time while traveling, but when you rally your units that loss will come later into the game. Which is better. The longer the distance to the natural the larger's the differance between maynarding and rallying.

If your opponent went for an one barrack opening - this can be scouted either with a scouting drone entering his base or by noting the timing of his expansion, if he takes it before your expansion finnishes, it's a one barrack build - you want to defend yourself using only zerglings untill the time his academy finnishes. This means you'll add two zerglings every now and then untill you reach the number of twelve. Once he gets his first academy units (this will normally be around the time your lair finnishes, but it could be earlier as well as later) you want to add a sunken and shortly after a creep colony. Morph the creep into a sunk if he moves out.

If he went for some kind of sunkbreaker strat (like four barracks before gas) you want to add enought sunkens to deal with it - survival above all. "Enough" is a term that constantly changes and you'll have to learn how many it really is, it comes with experience and questioning your errors.

If he instead went for a two barrack build there is a chance that he will pressure you with his early marines or do an academy rush. In those cases you want to defend with sunkens only, so don't make more lings than those initial four. Check out the "When to add Sunkens Colonies?" section at the end of the page.

Overlord Scouting

Where to send the first overlord? This depends on whether you want to find one base as fast as possible, two bases as fast as possible or if you want to reach a campable spot overlooking his choke as fast as possible.

If I 9 overpooled on a 4 player map I'd want to find 2 bases as fast as possible. If the bases are placed like on Lost Temple or Python, then I'd send my first overlord to the second closest base, if I'm at 6 then that's the 3 base. Then I'd send my my second overlord to the closest base, if I'm at 6 then that would be the base at 9. In this way I will successfully have scouted 2 out of 3 bases with only my overlords in time for my pool to finish. This means I'm 100% sure where my opponent is and that I'm guaranteed to send my zerglings to the right position. However, on some maps, like Luna and R-Point, there are no close base and no far base, all bases are far away. This means that you need to bring a drone off and scout with it if you want to 9 pool on these maps. But it also means that these maps are worse for 9 pooling as you has to bring the drone off.

Let's take another example. I'm going to 12 hatch expand on Longinus. I spawn at the 3 position. In this case I want to send my first overlord to the far away base, at 6. More precisely the cliff overlooking the choke of the 6 base. Then you send your second overlord to the cliff overlooking the choke of the 11 base . You want to manually micro your second overlord so it at all time is seeing as much as possible of the ground path between your base and the 11 base. However, you mustn't see too much as that would mean you won't be able to reach the safety of the unreachable high ground before you die, in case a marine should come walking there. The reason you send your overlord like this is of course to see if he sends his first marine to harass you or not. When sending your overlords like this you won't need to drone scout on Longinus. The same principle is usable on Tau Cross at the 9 position, except a 8raxer will be able to kill your second ol if he's at 1. If you're at 1 you can still do it, but your second ol dies if found no matter the build, as long as it's the second ol and not the first whom is traveling the right way.

If you 9 pool or 9 overpool on a 3 player map you want to send your first overlord to the closest base, in order to as fast as possible know where to send your zerglings, and if you're lucky get to know the strength of your opponents defences.

If you 12 hatch on a asymmetrical 4 player map [like Temple (except the 6 pos)] you send your first overlord the the closest base, if he's not there you move on to the far away base. Your second overlord is sent to the second closest base. If I'm at 3 on Temple, this means that my first overlord goes to the 12 base and then continues to the 9 base while my second overlord goes to the 6 base and stays there.

If it's a symmetrical 4 player map (like Luna) the situation gets more complex. These maps can look like anything! 2 different maps can, and are very likely to, have 2 different scouting patterns.
Lastly, remember that that not all maps have safe scouting paths nor safe camp spots overlooking the chokes. With a 9 pool (or similar) your objective is always to determinate where your opponent is with as little drone scouting as possible. If you 12 hatch your objective is to find a camp spot overlooking his choke as fast as possible. Go figure how to do on more maps.

Drone Scouting

There is not much to speak about here. There are only three questions to ask. When shall I drone scout? What shall I do once I'm inside his base? And how long shall I stay outside his base?

Generally this applies, but there might be some exceptions, like maps with HUGE distances. If you send your drone at 12 you will be able to enter one base before he gets a marine out while if you send it at 9 you will be able to enter 2 bases.

So if it's a 3 player map you 12 drone scout, or don't drone scout at all, see the Overlord Scouting part above. And it it's a 4 player map you 9 drone scout. Once you're inside his base you want to look at the number of barracks, and if he's taking the gas or not. There might also be dead give-aways, like a Command Center building or an academy going up. A gas is likely to mean an academy rush but could also mean some kind of cheese build.

Only 1 barrack but no gas means he's either fast expanding or building proxy. If he has only one 1 barrack and has taken his gas you want to sacrifice your scouting drone to find out what he's up to. A drone is faster than a marine but the marine has perfect acceleration so you want to travel in as straight paths as possible abusing your maximum speed. Going through his mineral line is another trick to use. All in all you might not be able to stay alive for a very long time but he will have to make his tech buildings quickly so you might be able to find them anyway, unless they're proxied.

On to the last question, if he's 2 raxing, or 1 raxing without gas you want to move out of his base in time to save your drone and place it in his choke so that you can see if he moves out to harass you. Stay there until he moves out or until your overlord arrives to take over the duty.
Note that if he's 8 raxing you won't be able to enter the second base with a 9 scout nor the first base with a 12 scout.

When to add Sunkens Colonies?

You want to get away with as few sunkens as possible, as late as possible, but still live. How many you need do of course depend on how large army he has, but that's something you'll have to learn your self. Generally 2-4 should be enough unless he goes 3 or 4 rax. If he fast expanded and plays passively you could get away without a single one, but you can never be sure so if you want to make less sunkens you have to learn that on your own.

What's easier to tell is when you need them. The first thing you need to ask yourself is this: Is the time it takes him to walk to my base from the position where my scout is placed longer than the time it takes to build a sunken? If the answer is yes, then you only want to add sunkens when you see him move out. If the answer is no, then you want to pre-add creep colonies, but do not morph them into sunkens. Morph them into sunkens only when you see him move out.

So when to pre-add the creeps? If he plays two rax, add the first one with your first 75 minerals after you've made your 4 zerglings, add the second one as you take your second gas and add the third one just before you make your spire and add a fourth one if his army looks huge.

OMFG IT'S A SWIZZERCHEESE!

How to tell a cheeser from a player whom this build is meant to counter? Asuming our scouting drone finds nothing? An academy rusher is most likely to move out in the time frame around when your lair finishes or alittle earlier (1 rax acarush would be faster, but also weaker), a fast expander is likely to have taken his expansion even earlier. That is what we're going to use. Instead of trying to tell if he's cheesing we're going to find out if he's not cheesing, and then assume that he's cheesing if it turns out he's not doing a non-cheese build.

So, if he has neither moved out nor expanded by the time your spire has started, he's very likely up to something sneaky. Now you have very little time to prepare for a cheese, but little is better than none at all. However, beware, some people are using wierd timings. Though they're not as efficient as normal timings they do still exist, and a stupid move can turn into a brilliant one if we assume he will not do it.


Some General Advice

*Always pre-add overlords during mid game. Having to wait for an overlord to finish is far worse than having wasted 100 minerals on an unneeded overlord.
*Put a fourth drone on your natural gas if it's placed to the right or below your nat hatchery. If your main gas is placed to the right or below your main hatchery then place your third hatchery below or to the right of the gas. If that's not possible then put 4 drones on the main gas too.
*Spread out a few zerglings across the map during the mid game so you always know where your opponent has his army.
*Always try to flank your opponent. Flank=attack from at least two sides. The move might take some multitask to pull off but practice makes perfect.
*Always try to delay the fight with your opponents main army. Terrans tend not to reinforce their main army once it has moved out. Use this to your advantage and reinforce your own army for as long as possible.
*Plague owns anything that is bionic.
*Always keep zerglings patroling the remote exps that you have not taken. The terran mustn't get another base without fighting for it.
*Use a trapped zergling to stack your mutalisks. Look at this:
This post was edited by a forum moderator @ 1 year ago
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4 years ago
#1
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esx_raptor
What exactly is backstab paranoia?

Excellent guide!
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4 years ago
#2
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iLLusioN.ReW
A backstabb is would be a counter attack, in this case. And paranoia is an exaggerated fear for something, typically a threat. In this case it means that you're scared of getting your main raped when you move out.
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4 years ago
#3
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Lord_of_Chaos
Basicly you are repeating exactly what I do, except on two things.

I tend to add a hydra den somewhere between my lair being halfway done or exactly when it's done. Then trying to hide the spire as good as possible. It very rarely succeeds in making a T believe I go lurks, as at the least me saving up larvae usually gives it away if he doesn't see my spire. However, sometimes it works and that's always very fun :) More importantly it enables me to get lurkers at the very first 200 gas after I made my muts. Often I can contain a terran with first mutalisk harassment, and then prolong the contain by burrowing lurkers outside his base without ever letting him out.

Second, I don't expand with my fourth hatchery. I almost always put it in my main. Why? It's because often good terrans will be able to amass enough rines to both defend and attack and take out an expo without me being able to do anything. The fact that I don't expand also makes the T less prone to move out with a marine force and makes me even more likely to be able to contain him with a lurker force.

Then I also tend to stay quite conservative in my mutalisk harass. This is because as long as my mutas are still alive I don't really need to deal much damage to keep in his base. I just need to remind him that I got 9 mutas flying around a little now and then to stop him from moving out. The idea of the mutas is, in my strategy, to keep him in his base until I get my lurkers up to contain him. Having 9 mutalisks alive later in the game is VERY good against drops and to deal damage to rines running from lurker spines.

I don't know my exact BO as far as you wrote your down, but I'm pretty sure I take my second gas earlier than you to enable faster lurk tech after the mutas. I also do my 3rd hatch at 14 or 15 instead of 13. First gas goes down right after I've started my first two lings (to chase off scout and idle outside his ramp).
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4 years ago
#4
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PsychoBaBas
Very nice guide. Obviously a lot of work went into this.
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4 years ago
#5
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iLLusioN.ReW
If there's a ramp to your expansion you can try to trap him in your expansion after he's taken it down. In this way you can get an great army advantage. 3 lurkers below a ramp is just hellish as 3 above one, as long his army is on the other side of course.

Another must for getting an advantage out of that expansion is to not make one single damn drone untill your lurks are out and positionated. If you don't have enought lings he might be able to move out so early that you can't trap him.
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4 years ago
#6
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kameleon
Very good thing, this is what i was waiting for. I mean this kind of guide written by someone who knows what he is talking about.

Thanks.
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4 years ago
#7
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mihkeL
great guide !
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4 years ago
#8
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a.k.a
ok nice guide really i liked it. And since there is nothing here about countering this strat (and i have spare time xD) i will now start writing some things about how the terran shoul counter this.

Build order:
9 suply
11 rax
14 suply
19 cc
21 gas
23 suply
As soon as raffinery finishes start academy then go for w/e u want (well its not w/e since there are particular things that u must do vs 3 hatcher but anyway).

The stuff u have to worry at that time of the game are:
Scanning at the right places, Scouting at the right places, And doing the right counter for the specific build order of the zerg and his game style. All this stuff i will explayin in a moment. For now lets focus on SCANNING.

Scanning:

To not use ur scan nrg useless u must know where a three hatcher places his buildings and u must count larvaes. (since if he saves larvaes and has about 7 -> 3 hatch muta even if u saw a den). The usual places for the spire are imo 2 since the 3th variant is useless.
The first location is the main (1st hatch) since its not to obvious but it also isnt that clear that it will be there. REMEMBER: Alaways scan ONTOP of hatchery because that way u see all that is around it and u cant miss anything (here there is a little tip - Always move ur screen around when u scan because if the building u r looking is on the bottom side of ur screen there is a possibility that u miss it).
The second usual (IMO) location for a spire is the 2nd hatch because no1 expect a zerg to put his most important at that stage building there since everyone scans for sunkens. Everyone but not me.. xD
The third spot (which i dont explayin about) is the 3th hatch. But that IMO is very obviouce spot.

Tip: Remeber always check the build order of the zerg. This is done by scanning at the right places, scouting long enough with the 1st scv etc. If u see something ammis in the build order immediately check some expo for proxy hatch! Be prepared for zerglings before muta!

Scouting:

The scouting in that case is done for the reason to see the sunken number for a possible conformation of a 3 hatch muta build. 2 Sunkens + Not scanned building (den/spire) = 60% of the times lurk since lurks pops out earlyer than muta. 3 Sunks with no scanned building = 65% muta since he needs that extra sunk for base defence.
4 Sunks with no scanned building = 75+% muta (not needed explaination)
For one sunken i will not speek because this meens in most cases that he is just better than u and has greater understanding of the game.

Tip: After ur first scouting scv dies, immediately send second. That way u have a slight chance to sneek in his main and to have confirm the 3 hatch muta build.

Ok now here comes the part for the right counters. This totaly depends on ur game style and u shouldn't do exactly as i say. (tho its not bad if u do)
The first typical counter to 3 hatch muta u can do is 3 rax + factory (note: everything u read here have to be done after a succeseful fast expo build - check build order above) This build imo is the safest build vs 3 hatch mutas because it gives u enough marines to counter the mutas and it also gives u an early enough tech to counter lurkers later-on. In the next paragraph i will explain WHY the mutas are done so be patient! =)
The second counter to 4 hatch muta is the cheesie build - 4 rax build + 1 weapon. This build, if executed right with a propper timing can give u great advantages later on, since u will delay his mutas with a minute or so thus delaying his second expo (which cant be defended without lurkers) and thus delaying his whole gameplay with a minute. The thing u must remember about this build is that without perfect macro and a very good timing it cant be done.
AND.. The possibility that u get raped is great so i dont like that build. The second bad thing about it is that it doesnt allow u to have enough tanks to defend properly vs lurkers and without control u get owned.
The 3th way to counter mutas is 2 rax fast factory. A build not that commonly used since u dont have enough marines to hold his mutas. Tho if u have the righ control and propperly placed turrets it happens to be a very good build since that early factory can give u an advantage in killing initial sunken line, thus delaying his lurkerling combo with some valuable seconds.

Tip: Remember - always keep an eye on ur rax numbers. If u see that he is better macro user than u add 2 rax to ur 2/3/4. Mutas are not that dangerous if u scan propperly, micro ur marines and place turrets at right spots. (dont ask about the right spots just whatch reps...)

Now to get back to Why the fu*k they do mutas and not go straight lurker.

Ok.. 3 hatch muta is a build order designed to delay the terran and keep him in his base while lurk upg is done = zerg can safely defend his 2nd expo. This is pretty much everything u should know but.. I sure can add a few more things.
1st of all if u go straight to lurkers u can easily be stopped by a blockade on ur chocke and u will be forced to do drop upgrade on overlords + speed upgrade = 150/150 + 200/200 = a lost resourses with no effect since the terran is well prepared in his base and awayts ur overlord in the usual positions. Then when he scans ur base with no defence in army he will atack the sunkens = u get raped, terran safely started his second expo and u r far behind him.

And.. one last thing which u may not know. It's about marine/medics vs mutas micro.
To understand this u must know how exatly are mutalisks stacked and controled vs ur marines. Its simple u grab ur 9 mutas put an overlord in the same control as ur mutas and u have it. Perfect stack with just a simple move action. Now how are the mutas controled? Well u right click in front of the target (in the case marine) constantly (not needed) and when u aproach the muta range u click ON the target. And basicaly thats how they do it. So when u know that and when u know that no1 is perfect and not everybody has julys micro u can make that in ur advantage. How u do it? Simple. When u see mutas aproaching ur marines move them back abit (STIMMED!) That way ur oponent concentration on the target fades and he is in a dilema (wtf? should i continue atack or should i back away?...) If he decides to continiue atack (u can see that by the muta chasing ur marines..) as soon as possible do atack move while u r backing away with ur rines. This surprises him and u can kill a muta or two. THEN when he tries to retreat don't stay on ur ass. Chase him! (but dont leave ur main or expo or w/e!) That way u can kill another muta or two.

Its all about thinking in this game. THINK! That's way they call it STRATEGY. 'cuz ur make ur owne STRATEGY depending on ur opponent build

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4 years ago
#9
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f0rgiv3n
great Guide!!! i'm a little confused with this sentence tho :P:
Instead of trying to tell if he's cheesing we're going to find out if he's not cheesing, and then assume that he's cheesing if it turns out he's not doing a non-cheese build.
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4 years ago
#10
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iLLusioN.ReW
It means that's he if he's not doing something that is not a cheese, then he's cheesing. Ie that if he's not playing academy rush or fe he's cheesing.
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4 years ago
#11
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Lord_of_Chaos
the really only problem I have when going 3hatch muts is when terran delays his tech to go mass mnm. I think it's 4 rax. Often this allows him to move out before I got my lurkers up and thus contain me at my choke. If he's got good micro it's really a bitch to break out and be able to fight on the battlefield

any ideas on how counter/avoid this?
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4 years ago
#12
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iLLusioN.ReW
When do your lurker tech finish? Let's asume you've an easy early game, ie no tech deleys.

How many lings do you have at that time?

How many marines do he move out with? Do he leave enought at home to fend of a counter attack?
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4 years ago
#13
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Lord_of_Chaos
I dunno how many he moves out with exactly.. was just something that struck my mind that I have problems when reading this guide.. so not too detailed queestion :P

I got roughly 9 mutas, a sunk wall, lots of drones and soon lurkers (usually morph in 6 lurkers right when lurker aspect finishes). He moves out with an army too large for muts to counter and leaves enough for defense.

The problem is now that if he's got good enough micro I can't really get out with my lurkers without losing lots of them and he losing very little since I need to run them in to him head on. At the very least, it will take lots of extra time to get any form of map control back.
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4 years ago
#14
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iLLusioN.ReW
Figures your opening would look something like this?

However, I don't see you mentioning anything about zerglings. Don't make one single damn drone inbetween when your spire finishes and your lurkers are out. In that state of the game map control is needed, so make all lings.
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4 years ago
#15
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Lord_of_Chaos
I don't do zerlings, not before I get my lurkers up. Then I start massing them too. Perhaps I should do that if I see terran go lots of barracks before tech, but normally I find that I don't need them. My strat works pretty fine as it is
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4 years ago
#16
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(xero
http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon07/brackets/replays/starcraft/iris-savior.zip

this strat was done bysavior vs iris at blizcon 07 longinus2
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4 years ago
#17
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iLLusioN.ReW
That is where I too first encountered it. However, I do belive savior is doing a few mistakes during the late early game and mid game, which is why the build described isn't exactly the same as the one performed by savior.
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4 years ago
#18
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iLLusioN.ReW
Epic bump for epic update. Times change, as do builds.
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4 years ago
#19
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AKL-
since when acad rushes are cheese? Fuck all zergs who thinks they deserve their fast expand without any rule.
hello
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4 years ago
#20
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iLLusioN.ReW
2008-04-12 13:59:27, akl- wrote:
since when acad rushes are cheese? Fuck all zergs who thinks they deserve their fast expand without any rule.
Since you defined it as such? ;P

Now I think you've just misinterpreted the text, but you could be a mofo too (the latter part actually points towards this), the choice is yours.
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