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Forums \ Strategic forum \ A word about Build Orders
1 year ago

smi.symphony
A word about Build Orders (721 reads, 9 replies)
Hi, recently i've just been reading random posts in the strategic forums of both gg.net and tl.net. I've noticed that people like to rely on "build orders" and only Builder order to get them through the game. I assume that you guys also think that because these "build orders" are done by gosus (pro gamers, mondragon, testie, etc :) that they are always viable in that match up no matter what. Well i'm not trying to tell anyone that they are "wrong" , build orders can be just blindly done but then you find yourself in a situation where Game Mechanics (micro, unit positioning) is all that you have to win. I'm just going to explain why build orders shouldn't just blindly be executed, and most of this is intended for the newer players that are starting to get serious.
Gosus do their buildorders to best strategize and benefit their lategame alternatives and most importantly adjust to their Opponents Build order. Now in certain match ups certain races have the first inititiative to chagne the flow of the game.(Making their opponent adjust to them, rather than vice-versa) For example pvt on a non ramp map such as azalea or longinus, when protoss does 2 gate range the terran MUST make tank with siege first and maybe even a bunker to defend vs offensive build. You can't just simply go cc before machine shop, which nada and oov like to do in their circumstances, or else you'd just simply die.
You must treat every situation in starcraft as if you've just scouted a templar archive. What i mean by this is that when you scout a temoplar archives in tvp, you dont just simply not build an e-bay or academy and go for your expansion. You prepare it with a build order of your own, which obviously includes detectors or mines. Another situation would be if a protoss double nexuses. You can either timing push him or take your 3rd cc yourself. You don't just go in with your build order that is timed to attack at the 10 minute mark or certain supply.
So please to you new guys hear my out. Every part of starcraft is interchangeable and is best enjoyed without following "certain " build orders or attack times. Play it to what you think benefits you most, and learn from your mistakes. This is how you gain knowledge of the game, rather than just repeating build orders.
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1 year ago
#1

mcarthur

   1
You're assuming people don't pay attention to what they scout. I think most people on GG.net would agree with me when I say that while we often use tried and true BOs, we are flexible enough to adjust to what we encounter.

I myself 12hatch 11pool quite frequently, but should I spy a FE toss, it'll be something more along the lings of 12hatch, 11hatch, and pump drones like there's no tomorrow. Good, general BOs are adaptable, imho.
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1 year ago
#2

a.k.a

   1
ok now i'm reading ur post and i'm writing my comment at the same time.
I found mistakes so i will correct u =)

1st off: Azalea - 2 gate goon rush -> terran dont really need to do siege tank in any case. since a wall-in is awaylable on azalea, since u have mines as upg
(even cheaper and gives u more advantage in trap-kinda-play since no toss will atack move at ur siege tanks behind wall but any toss can make the mistake to not see mines and suicide 1-3 goons early game) and since terran is flexable race. In case of 2 gate build by toss mines is the better choice since toss will be later in obs makeing it easyer to be trapped by mines. Also u can start for a drop. Make a siege tank + mines upg add a dropship and go for it. U can also start for early joyo push, tank push. All of these can be propperly executed vs 2 gate build.
As i read more u say stuff about templar archives and dark templars. This once again proves my oppinion that mines is the better choice.

2nd: NO... Build orders are a needed stuff because in SC u NEED to perfect every single detail in ur play makeing it impossible for ur opponent to surprise ur. Here comes the build orders. I will give example:

In TvP - 9 suply 11 raks 11 raffinery 16 factory 16 suply is the perfect build order u have to follow almost every game and is really needed for u to survive any decent toss atack. Also it's kinda flexible so u have the opportunity to choose what to do next (either start a expo, add a factory or starport)

Build orders are needed
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1 year ago
#3

EsX_Raptor

 (Replay management - SC)   5
Show me a replay where you don't use a BO rsomething and beat someone else who does.
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1 year ago
#4

(Xero

   1
i think he meant not standart early game BO but mid game Bo
yes 9 suply 11 raks 11 raffinery 16 factory 16 suply is the perfect build
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1 year ago
#5

a.k.a

   1
i dont think 2 gate or dark templar rush is mid game bo :/
w/e
As for mid game BO's -> this thing does not exist. Same with late game.
in mid/late game u counter whatever ur opponent do or u do somethink and ur opponent conters. There are no Bo.
There are timing and building placement.
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1 year ago
#6

smi.symphony

   4
2007-10-05 16:48:36, a.k.a wrote:
ok now i'm reading ur post and i'm writing my comment at the same time.
I found mistakes so i will correct u =)

1st off: Azalea - 2 gate goon rush -> terran dont really need to do siege tank in any case. since a wall-in is awaylable on azalea, since u have mines as upg
(even cheaper and gives u more advantage in trap-kinda-play since no toss will atack move at ur siege tanks behind wall but any toss can make the mistake to not see mines and suicide 1-3 goons early game) and since terran is flexable race. In case of 2 gate build by toss mines is the better choice since toss will be later in obs makeing it easyer to be trapped by mines. Also u can start for a drop. Make a siege tank + mines upg add a dropship and go for it. U can also start for early joyo push, tank push. All of these can be propperly executed vs 2 gate build.
As i read more u say stuff about templar archives and dark templars. This once again proves my oppinion that mines is the better choice.

2nd: NO... Build orders are a needed stuff because in SC u NEED to perfect every single detail in ur play makeing it impossible for ur opponent to surprise ur. Here comes the build orders. I will give example:

In TvP - 9 suply 11 raks 11 raffinery 16 factory 16 suply is the perfect build order u have to follow almost every game and is really needed for u to survive any decent toss atack. Also it's kinda flexible so u have the opportunity to choose what to do next (either start a expo, add a factory or starport)

Build orders are needed


The main point i'm trying to get htrouhg is that a build order a pro uses to get a certain point (minute or supply count) where he attacks is meant for his situation only. The case is that i've read many posts that people just name attack times, and supplies where you MUST attack. That is just wrong.
And also 9 supply 11 barrack, etc. is a standard build order that optimizes time. Yes i do agree that they should stay, but what im arguing is the later option later on (between begginning and mid game ) where people just blindly do a 6 factory push or 3 rd cc quciker expand vs protoss without seeing what their opponents are doing.
Again this isnt meant for better players or even decent players, i just like to help teh noobs.
to sum it up as aka said, There is no mid game bo.
Androide_Fan greasy pimply nerd lol
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1 year ago
#7

a.k.a

   1
ok now.. there are 2 kinds of build orders.
1st kind is Early Game Build Order - like 9 suply 11 rax etc. This is absolutely needed and u do it blindly in every situation and just change it in different MU's
I mean -> tvp 9 suply 11 rax 11 raffinery 16 fax 16 suply,
tvz 9 suply 11 rax 13 rax 14 suply
The EGBO (^_^) is needed as i said in every situation since it gives u the best timing early-on = better timing later-on =)

The 2nd kind is Early-Mid Game Bo -> like u said 6 factoryes with one expo and a blind push. This is absoluteley wrong + it gives u disadvantage.
To do a BO in mid game (if we can call it a bo since u dont make a certain building at the exact suply limit) u need to have understanding of the game and of ur opponent, as well as the map.
Now lets get it straight.

Situation: TvP, Map: Tau Cross: Possitions: T 5h, P 1h
Toss goes for 2 gate build => terran goes for mines + expo (fake gundam)
Toss makes dual expos and his second expo is at 3h.
Terran sees this, scans his gate numbers and sees 2 working + 2 building
At that time terran has 2 fax and has to choose his way of play.
He has 2 ways of playing -> 1. macro orientated style = 2 expo with 2 fax.
2. timing orientated style = timing push at the minute 9-10 (since in every other minute he will be overrun easyly.
He does this: with like 4 tanks he adds 2-3 more fax (but not 4!) and starts pumping vultures + tanks from 2 addons. Then when he has about 7-8 tanks + 7-8 vults he unsieges and heads to the 3o'clock toss expo. Vults - control 1
Tanks control 2 Marines + scv's control 3. He then scans for army and start makeing turrets lay mines and sieges his tanks 2 by to or w/e.

This is a simple example of a mid game BO - in that case a push which requires good timing + decent macro skills and gives u the advantage of takeing the map control = expand safely.

And if u r talking about Blindly executing that kind of bo's - yes ur right.
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1 year ago
#8

AKL-

   6
ppl don't understand that pro bo are made to work with a progamer micro and macro..i mean a progamer will be able to face a risky situation with some build because he knows he should be able to deal with his micro..and to bebnefit from this later in the game with his macro .This is less true at lower levels , it s why it s not a good solution to copy / paste pro build without thinking on it and on your potential before doing it .
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1 year ago
#9

Tile102

   2
the bo is the initial part that you copy from progamers, as the game advance you change cause you scout your enemy
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