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Forums \ Strategic forum \ Protoss help
1 year ago

februarys
Protoss help (485 reads, 8 replies)
Hi, I've been improving lately and I needed some questions answered because Im still not good enough

1) In what situations would you use scouts? Because if I need an air unit, I just build corsairs since its good for web + ovie harrasment

2) What is the ideal number of observers/high temp/dark temp in any general game?

3) What first?: Observer speed or observer range

4) Are reavers substitutes for storm or do good players tend to use both? I often can't find the time/gas to support both since I build other techs

5) Is Arbiter techs + Storm + Reaver + D-Web possible in a general game or is all 4 of those too gas demanding to pull off in an average time game?

6) Do you research shuttle speed if you use shuttle to drop zealots onto sieged tanks? (I find it a hassle to do because I have to build robotic support bay to do that)

7) Archon costs 4 supply (!!!?) while a tank costs 2?

8) In any games not involving zerg, is it safe to go DT early for major
harrassment?

9) In professional replays, I see people build new expansions and move some of their workers from their main minerals to their expansions. Is it bad to have too many workers in 1 mineral patch due to their tendency to move around when there are too many workers? What is the ideal number of probes per mineral line?

10) If shield batterys are next to each other, can they recharge each other's shields? Do people usually build at least 1 in a general game?

11) Is there any reason a person goes carriers verses a terran player? I thought mass goliaths or mass wraiths or lockdown owned them badly?

12) Group of Corsair > Group of Valkiryes? (Assuming same number and same upgrades)

13) Going D-web is too gas demanding verse Terran? I thought its effective verse tanks but I heard most players think corsairs are too expensive to do that effectively?
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1 year ago
#1

baboKeisari

   6
1) vs battlecruisers and carriers.

2) There's no ideal number, few of each is fine.

3) speed

4) storm > reaver but lategame pvz I recommend both

5) Its possible but I dont think you will need d-web after those 3 others.

6) No I dont but in maps like lost temple where you get cliffed by terran its
quite useful.

7) Ok dude. Dont use archons in PvT :)

8) PvP its quite risky. If your opponent goes fast obs you're dead.

9) Dunno. 2 probes / patch sounds cool tho.

10) No they cant, only combat units. Battery is not used very often but its good when defending vs rush and in defending altogether.

11) Terran has lousy antiair so carriers with some micro is hard to fight.
Of course if terran sees carriers being made its easy to counter.

12) I dont think so. (haven't tested tho)

13) With same tech you can make carriers and own terran. :)

Btw I just woke up so dont consider this post you own personal bible.
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1 year ago
#2

NrG.Shiney

   6
7) Load your 2 high templars in shuttle and fly to fry some scv's.. or just storm the tanks

8) At some lvl ppl starts to get the idea what you are building by your few first buildings and when they see your unit count, so in pvp its risky, in pvt terran usually builds turrets early enough.

10) Building and using battery in pvz rush is always pimp!

11) Theres a reason why you should put 2-3 observers to follow your carriers

12) I think valkyries owns corsairs in head-on battle, if you just a-move both and let them start fighting, but its airfight and units are stacked so in real game it depends much of micro (spreading units, sairs vs muta/carriers&sairs vs devourers&muta)

13) I think its too "difficult" to use web, because you would need to select different sairs/de-select them from group when using it and it costs much energy.
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1 year ago
#3

Lord_of_Chaos

   17
2007-10-03 05:21:35, februarys wrote:
1) In what situations would you use scouts? Because if I need an air unit, I just build corsairs since its good for web + ovie harrasment

Sometimes vs Zerg as an alternative to an early corsair. Can work nicely if you see him prepare for a spore instead of hydra tech, as it can harass ground targets too. Otherwise only vs capital ships like BCs and Carriers.

2) What is the ideal number of observers/high temp/dark temp in any general game?

Depends on the game. Some with your army to see cloaked units or mines. Some spread out so you are seeing important spots on the map (so you scout drops and army movements).

3) What first?: Observer speed or observer range

Asked myself that many times :) Vs zerg I would guess that range is best when trying to break out of contains, as you don't have to expose your obs very much, but speed is best when you're moving around a lot so you keep the obs in your army

4) Are reavers substitutes for storm or do good players tend to use both? I often can't find the time/gas to support both since I build other techs

In PvP it seems many players choose reavers for Area of Effect damage early on and switch to storm later. In PvZ it's often the opposite, opening with temps and switching to reavers later (especially vs ultracrackling defiler).

5) Is Arbiter techs + Storm + Reaver + D-Web possible in a general game or is all 4 of those too gas demanding to pull off in an average time game?

You won't have supply left for an army... I'd say pick two of those lol, and one of them being storm... In general of course..

6) Do you research shuttle speed if you use shuttle to drop zealots onto sieged tanks? (I find it a hassle to do because I have to build robotic support bay to do that)

PvT is not my area, but I think generally no, unless you are also doing/have done reaver harass (so you already had the robotics). I can't see why you'd need speed, unless he's got turrets or goliaths, in which case it seems stupid to go for lots of zealot bombs anyway.

7) Archon costs 4 supply (!!!?) while a tank costs 2?

Correct. So?

8) In any games not involving zerg, is it safe to go DT early for major
harrassment?

Afaik, it's considered cheesy and is not safe but can catch opponents off guard and deal some heavy damage. But players who know about pvt and pvp more can elaborate.

9) In professional replays, I see people build new expansions and move some of their workers from their main minerals to their expansions. Is it bad to have too many workers in 1 mineral patch due to their tendency to move around when there are too many workers? What is the ideal number of probes per mineral line?

GENERALLY 2-3 per mineral patch is ideal (due to the deeper dymaics of the game). Purely mathematically though, when you got more than 1 worker per mineral patch, the efficiency of each worker goes down exponentially (I imagine), meaning that to have maximum efficiencly you want to have an equal amount of workers per mineral patch on each expansion. That's why you move them..

10) If shield batterys are next to each other, can they recharge each other's shields? Do people usually build at least 1 in a general game?

Afaik then can recharge any PLASMA sheild, but cannot recharge energy.
They are often used to counter rushes, sometimes to aid your own rush (building them in your opponents base ^^), and quite often to recharge carrier shields (as they are such expensive units).

11) Is there any reason a person goes carriers verses a terran player? I thought mass goliaths or mass wraiths or lockdown owned them badly?

Well, the normal terran mix consists of tanks and vultures, none of which fire at air. So if you manage to hide your carriers and catch a terran off guard with them you get a pretty nice advantage. Wraiths do not own carriers in straight up fight, but can be effective if you kill his obs and get cloak. Goliaths depend on the map. If it is a map with many cliffs and narrow passages, carriers>goliaths, if it's a wide open map (like luna for example) goliaths>carriers.

12) Group of Corsair > Group of Valkiryes? (Assuming same number and same upgrades)

Never seen them fight each other, but I would imagine the valkyries would pwn as they have 2 armor from the beginning.. Though a fight like that will never happen with normal players.

13) Going D-web is too gas demanding verse Terran? I thought its effective verse tanks but I heard most players think corsairs are too expensive to do that effectively?

Well, you need to build stargate, fleet beacon, a decent amount of corsairs, and then upgrade dweb. You need to stay ALIVE during the time you invest in that before it becomes usable. That's 1 problem. It's also micro intensive and gas heavy and dweb cost a lot of energy.
HOWEVER, I still think it PWNS and should be used more often.
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1 year ago
#4

Jacomo
shit so many words
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1 year ago
#5

Senix

   3
Valkyries own Corsairs BAD.
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1 year ago
#6

sosha

   3
heh..
I seen this thread and someone asking for Protoss help, so i'm trying to help!! :)

There were a lot of questions u asked, some that aren't really 'worth' mentioning/answering.. like the 2 templar = 4 supply.. Ya.. it's just part of the game really --v, just like nuke is 8 supply, after making a ghost etc.

Scouts only good v major air units. Scouts are really gosu v Air but suck v ground. I guess they're a lot like Sairs, but they are more damaging to air units where as sairs add splash dmg. Scouts are really only used v Carriers or Guardians or the like.. (when u need massive air dmg)

Sheild batteries, I think, can only work on units not liek damaged, almost dead cannons. They can't re-supply another batteries' energy either.

Reavers aren't a 'replacement' for storm, but if used correctly, they can be more useful. Rvr's and temps take about the same amount of micro-management to make them useful. Reavers almost always need shuttle-support for traveling so considering their mobility, u could use them for economy drops, or bring them w/ ur army for further land support.
I guess the choice of Rvr's / temps depends on the opponent, the map and ur general game plan.
Just refer to Bisu v GoRush Game 1 @ Loki for insight as to why some use Rvr rush in PvZ

Rvr's/temps/d-webs/ etc.. it's not that much to use in 1 game. I actually like and try to attain all my tech, all my units, everything I can in almost every game. Like someone said, it is hard to stay alive and try to macro enough of these units/spells to make them useful, but it's definately possible to use all of them in battle. I like to try to have archon/ht/dt/zeal/goon army w/ shuttles flying overhead and having sairs w/ d-webs.. it's sexy army :)
It's also good to just use ur temp/zeal/goon army for ur main units of offense, while using sairs for harassment and rvr's for eco-drops etc..

Webs v Terran are underused. They do take some getting used to, and take some time to acquire, but once u get 8+ sairs.. being 8 webs at once.. it's a big dent on the area a Terran can seige in. Having a good placement of observers and a high unit count of Dragoons + D-webs can really mess up any Terran's mobilizing plans. However, disruption webs are not something that should be 'rushed' too. They take a stargate, fleet-beacon and several sairs + an upgrade or two, so u definatley shouldn't try to just go for 3 gate obs ---> sairs w/ D-webs.. that would prolly slow down ur macro and map control etc..

I just like to get a good map positioning, see what the T opponent is doing - maybe secure a 2nd gas (obvious) and try to secure a 3rd too. Once u have at least 2 other gases, then ya, u can easily tech to d-webs and easiliy mass a good amount of sairs off 2 stars.. then whenever the T trys to come out, just surround him and let him seige.. It's best to let him come out at once, so all his units are grouped, then just d-web a few 'key' spots in his army, and none of his tanks will fire, letting all ur units get free hits ;D
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1 year ago
#7

So.REspected

   3

1) In what situations would you use scouts?

Scouts are ideal for taking down BCs or carriers, but generally storm + goon can counter those. Its more for island maps.

2) What is the ideal number of observers/high temp/dark temp in any general game?

That'll depend on match up, but I'd say about 2 templars in each of your groups (about 2 for every 12 fighting units) and about half of that for DAs in pvz.

3) What first?: Observer speed or observer range

I'm not sure, I prefer speed. If your only using it for mines than range.

4) Are reavers substitutes for storm or do good players tend to use both? I often can't find the time/gas to support both since I build other techs

Not really. But yes, I think that reaver support helps very much, its jsut expensive and difficult to use well (easy to die).

5) Is Arbiter techs + Storm + Reaver + D-Web possible in a general game or is all 4 of those too gas demanding to pull off in an average time game?

Possible, but only viable in pvz.

6) Do you research shuttle speed if you use shuttle to drop zealots onto sieged tanks? (I find it a hassle to do because I have to build robotic support bay to do that)

Yes, shuttle speed helps immensely, but obviously thats more of a mid game thing to upgrade. You don't really need to for breaking tanks on cliffs and stuff.

7) Archon costs 4 supply (!!!?) while a tank costs 2?

Oh em gee.

8) In any games not involving zerg, is it safe to go DT early for major
harrassment?

I'd say its pretty bad vs. high level players, but works very well against low level players. Good Ters will have mines, and a toss will have a cannon, which shuts down your early tech completely which leaves you behind in macro as his economy and army count is much higher.

9) In professional replays, I see people build new expansions and move some of their workers from their main minerals to their expansions. Is it bad to have too many workers in 1 mineral patch due to their tendency to move around when there are too many workers? What is the ideal number of probes per mineral line?

around 2 - 2.5 workers a patch I believe. Generally workers are moved because they make a surplus before hand.

10) If shield batterys are next to each other, can they recharge each other's shields? Do people usually build at least 1 in a general game?

No and no. I at least, rarely see shield batteries. They're usually useless investments.

11) Is there any reason a person goes carriers verses a terran player? I thought mass goliaths or mass wraiths or lockdown owned them badly?

A fast carrier switch can devastate a terran if done properly, as their forces are usually composed of only vultures and tanks. It'll take time to swtich and its possible to take out his army and key expansions.

12) Group of Corsair > Group of Valkiryes? (Assuming same number and same upgrades)

I'm not sure =p

13) Going D-web is too gas demanding verse Terran? I thought its effective verse tanks but I heard most players think corsairs are too expensive to do that effectively?

Yes, its too expensive and not always useful (they can just move out). It has to be done right, and I find it difficult to pull off well considering how many sairs you need to effectively shut down the tanks.
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1 year ago
#8

februarys

   1
thanks for the helpful responses

if anyone could help me find a replay that I saw long ago with a protoss player who made Dark archons and maelstromed ultraling combo nicely, I would really appreciate it. I just cant seem to dig it up again and I really want to watch
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