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Forums \ Strategic forum \ muta bounce and upg.
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Lord_of_Chaos (StarCraft Editor)
muta bounce and upg. (1210 reads, 25 replies, 1 year ago)
Some questions I have about muttalisks upgrades, specifically about bounce damage.

Muttalisks do, as everyone should know, 9 damage on direct hit, 3 on first bounce and 1 on the last. This is because damage is divided by three for every bounce. However, I got some questions on this when it comes to upgrades.

If I upgrade my muttalisks with +1 attack, they will in theory deal 10, 3.33, 1.11 dmg. How does this work out in practice? Everyone who recieves the first bounce gets 3 dmg the two first times and 4 the last? like invisible 0.33 that stack up until it hits a full 1 dmg? Or does it simply only 3 dmg all the time?

And with armor, if I face unupgraded muttalisks and upgrade one armor on mine, they will in theory do 8, 2, 0 dmg. But will it actually deal 0 dmg on last bounce? I remember hearing somewhere that the smallest amount of damage possibly dealt is 0.5 (1dmg every second hit). So will it in practice turn out to be 8, 2, 0.5?
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1 year ago
#1
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BoA)Whyte(
I heard somewhere it's always 9(+/- upgs) / 3 / 1 , so upgs don't affect the bounce dmg
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1 year ago
#2
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BzrK
i think #1 is right, ups do not affect bounce dmg
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1 year ago
#3
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Lord_of_Chaos (StarCraft Editor)
According to tsunami they do. And according to everything else I've read before too...
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1 year ago
#4
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Backdoor
try with a mate :D
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1 year ago
#5
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Gabriel_reaper
according my tests (~1,5 year ago? so it could be changed, but i don't think so).
Upgrade just don't increase bounce dmg at all until full (+3) is reached where second bounce increases to 4, third stayed at 1.

and smallest dmg that can be dealt is 1 (can be seen quite easy on dmg -> larvae (10armor) and eggs (10 armor)

so:

muta has 9/3/1, +1 muta has 10/3/1 ... +3 muta has 12/4/1

unupg muta on 1armor - 8/2/1, 2 armor 7/1/1, 3 armor 6/1/1
so armor upgrade in ZvZ is much more important.
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1 year ago
#6
machack
play zvt on single player and attack marines with an invincible mutalisk and see if after 3 hits with a 1 upgraded muta the marine that gets the 1st bounce has lost 10 hp.


CHEAT ENABLED
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1 year ago
#7
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lolmaestro
Power Overwhelming, Show me the money, Operation CWAL

GG
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1 year ago
#8
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iLLusioN.ReW
2007-09-05 21:26:46, Gabriel_reaper wrote:
and smallest dmg that can be dealt is 1 (can be seen quite easy on dmg -> larvae (10armor) and eggs (10 armor)

Nope, halves can be dealt: they just don't show up until they sum up to one.
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1 year ago
#9
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AoN.OminouS
And YES, armor is affected by bounce, thats why armor > attack, muttas vs muttas. Every armor shield 3 instead of 1 cuz of the bounce :)
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1 year ago
#10
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l3liZzArD
There was a great thread by chill on teamliquid about muta's, it also covered upgrades a little bit. I susgest you read it, i would link to it, but TL is down currently for me.
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1 year ago
#11
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ugla
I agree with #8. If every attack did at least 1 point of damage it would not take so long to kill the larvas. Just one example you can try right off: it takes five attacks from a drone or ghost (three from a marine) before the larva looses its first hitpoint. Also check the difference between 0 and +1 to attack on a hydra (vs larva).

#0: I guess the 0.5 damage thing corresponds to the case when attack=armor (not for the ghost apparently), and it is less if armor>attack. It also somehow depends on the attack type, since terran wraith seems to be unable to do ANY harm to a larva despite having higher damage than a marine. On the other hand, the marine seems to do 1 damage every 3 attacks regardless of his upgrade!

As far as mutas are concerned, their damage works like:
primary attack: 9+1+1+1 depending on attack upgrade
secondary attack: 1/3 of the previous
tertiary attack: 1/3 of the previous

The calculations are performed in real arithmetics, but displayed as integers, just as #8 said.

Target's armor is subtracted from ALL attacks, which makes muta weaker and weaker with each consecutive upgrade.
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1 year ago
#12
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smurfaka
this is what i love about starcraft, there is so much thats still un-certain :D
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1 year ago
#13
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iLLusioN.ReW
Just tried it out with some cheating on single player.
With +1 the first bounce deals 3-3-4-3-3-4-3-3-4 , so my guess is that the game can handle fractial damage of any size, not just halves.
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1 year ago
#14
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Lord_of_Chaos (StarCraft Editor)
#13, ah thanks.. that's very interesting :)
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1 year ago
#15
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johii
i wonder if blizz will give us this info for sc2 or if we have to work it out our self.
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1 year ago
#16
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Lord_of_Chaos (StarCraft Editor)
I hope we'll hae to work it out ourselvs ^^
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1 year ago
#17
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iLLusioN.ReW
Amusement is found along the road, not at it's end.
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1 year ago
#18
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iluona
Not all hits deal damage, as you may have noticed, several un-upgraded marines still do damage on larve (10 armor) over time...

Just run this through with a Terran player in a melee game, should be fairly simple to test it out.
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1 year ago
#19
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Lord_of_Chaos (StarCraft Editor)
Thus far:
SC accounts for decimals and/or fractinos. Ie, a bounce damage from an +1 attack muttalisk will deal 3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, because it in theory does 1.33 damage. It seems like sc just saves the damage until it adds up to an integer.

Armor reduces every bounce by one, but equal armor to damage will result in 0.5 damage as that is the least possible. Ie, 1 armored units will take damage from an unupgraded muttalisk like this: 8, 2, 0.5. With 2 armor it will be 7, 1, 0.5 and with 3 it will be 6, 0.5, 0.5. 0.5 damage meaning 1 damage every second hit.

Correct?
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1 year ago
#20
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AoN.OminouS
#19 u said that +1 attack on second bounce makes 3.33 dmg.
Then the third bounce should do less damage then 0.5 vs 2 armor? Or does it only apply for attack, and not for armor? =/
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