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Forums \ Strategic forum \ ZvT: without mutalisks?
 1, 2

1 year ago
#21

Lord_of_Chaos

   17
12 hatch 13 pool

You will die against scv/rine attack or bunker rush if a terran sees that and he's good. normal 12hatch 11pool is much less risky. If you want to go risky macro build, do like 12hatch 12hatch 11pool instead or something. 13pool just gives you the disadvantageous of both builds, but very little of their advantages.

And eventually you will have to learn to use muttalisks well too. Remember though, that damage with muttas are not the key (but of course it's good if you can do it). The idea is to force him to stay in his base until you got whatever you want (expo, lurkers, mass, power, whatever). Also he will waste his minerals on turrets..
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1 year ago
#22

PdK.Scary

   5
people thinks that mutalisk are used to win the game.
you make mutalisk to contain the terran in his base, allowing you
to expand. but ofc you can also take something unprotected, like
suply or you will at least force the guy to make turrets all over his base.
it can give you high or small advantage.
you cant waste any one of your mutas.
keep them to make guardians or devourers.

the reason ppl like lurkers is because you can win the game w your
initial lurkers if the T has no bunker or any kind of good defence.
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1 year ago
#23

aux1

   1
"make hydra den at the same time as spire (i use 12 hatch 13 pool 13 extract ~16 hatch, hidden or at an expo). or u can place den when lair is 50% done like usual, and research and get spire at same time (if t isnt aggressive)
"
Your bo is so fucked up. Original post please don't use this.
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1 year ago
#24

iLLusioN.ReW

   10
That's a good bo, might need some polishing but in general it's a good one if you like that kind of style. Think I'd do the third hatch earlier though.
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1 year ago
#25

cold_king

   2
Here is one good strategy without mutas: 12 exp, pool, hat,gas,hat,lire then upg to lurk and go with mass ling-lurk with early carapace and so on... tech to defiler soon as you can. Don't forget to expand when you have the first 2-4 lurkers, and expand always when you've got advantage against the terran.
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1 year ago
#26

aux1

   1
2007-08-19 10:50:10, iLLusioN.ReW wrote:
That's a good bo, might need some polishing but in general it's a good one if you like that kind of style. Think I'd do the third hatch earlier though.


vs a good terran he would die in first 3 minutes if the terran saw this.
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1 year ago
#27

psyCrowe

   7
u cant rely on drops. they only work so often. against much better players drops can get raped easily

i usually get like at least 6-7 mutas and harrass him a bit, if i see he got lots of turrets, then il probably be getting my hive anyway, use mutas to look for any terran expos, and kill some marines or barracks, then when u got a greater spire, u goin into late game with guardian, ultra, ling and defilers. maybe some leftover hydras and lurkers too.
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1 year ago
#28

Blasius

   1
Someone here suggested you learn to use mutalisks. I would agree with that, mutas will improve your ZvT game 10x or better :D

Mutas are excellent to use against terrans these days. Why? Many terrans do fast expo. Using mutas against a fast expo terran will help you in many ways:

∙force terran to build more turrets near mineral line, since he has more buildings + 2 bases.
∙constant muta harass will delay tank production
∙Probably the most important thing this does is contain the terran. Containment means he will have to keep his units (in this case, m&m) inside his base to protect himself. While turrets are a good defense for his workers, a group of 11 mutas will kill turrets, unless he has 5+ surrounding his workers at each base. Having a contained terran is exactly the situation you want to be in as zerg. This means:
1. The terran cannot leave his base to attack you. You are free to tech to lurkers -> hive later on without worrying too much about base defense while you are muta harassing.
2. The terran cannot leave his base to scout for expansions. Use the time you are harassing with mutas to expand at least once, twice if you can.

This is the basic strategy of using mutas against terran. However, the reason that mutas work at all against terran are because of how quickly they can hit & run. If you're not sure, search the forum on how to effectively micro mutas. I believe someone posted some vids for you to look at here also.
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1 year ago
#29

naw-merz

   9
every terrans dream is to face lurkers every TvZ, seriously.

Mutas are so annoying and can hurt you so bad it's ridicoulus.
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1 year ago
#30

bloodyhawk2005

   2
The importance of mutalisks are how fast you get them and how long you keep the harrass going. If you know how to stack mutas then good its needed if not select your mutas with a larva or ovlerlord. Next key thing is when you get your mutalisks. If you get them 2 minutes late then it can be very ineffective. You want to get mutas pretty fast. right when you get your 3rd hatch get a extractor and right when you get 100 gas get lair then when lair comes get a 2nd gas build a spire you should have 9 mutas right when spire is done. The second key is how long can you make a harrass last. Well the importance of the harrass is not dealing damage to the terran persay. You want to keep him in his base. You can also scout what hes doing if he has 2 starports you can notice hes going mass sci vessel. But try not to actually go up against his marines and medics. Your mutas stand no chance. Try to pick off a lone turret every once in a while and some building scvs. If possible some scvs. But if theyre are marines gaurding what you want to kill dont go for it! Just move around them and kill something else. The third most important thing is that when you muta harrass and if your bad at macro and see your minerals going crazy. Is that what you can do is when you get your spire up you can make a 4th hatchery in your base. I would not suggest building an expo with it at your level since without a good muta harrass it would be gg to the expo. With all this extra macro you can really hurt the terran with some ling/lurk/muta. if not push him back. Try to dual expand once you get your lurks. Then just keep outmassing him until you get defilers or even ultras.
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1 year ago
#31

SCTV

   4
2007-08-17 00:25:01, ducati wrote:
tvz without scv's?


I couldn't find one with a donkey
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1 year ago
#32

Nightmarjoo

   3
2007-08-18 05:10:38, WHiTeSTRiPeS- wrote:
2007-08-17 19:51:23, Nightmarjoo wrote:
My muta control isn't terrible, but I have 0 timing with them, so like I go muta and even if I hide spire it's obvious from my larva count, or sunk count, and I come into t main with muta and he already has 20 turrets, can't even killed a depot or a single turret and my macro goes to shit and I get raped cuz I don't have lurks when he attacks.


make hydra den at the same time as spire (i use 12 hatch 13 pool 13 extract ~16 hatch, hidden or at an expo). or u can place den when lair is 50% done like usual, and research and get spire at same time (if t isnt aggressive)


no way, I usually 2hatch now, I'm not wasting minerals/gas on that lol Purpose of getting lurk first is to be agressive and try and take map control by pushing t away from you. Mutas can do the same thing, but if you don't have good muta control, then stick with lurks. But if I spend money on a spire at this time when I need the gas for lurks and I won't be using my spire for 5+ minutes (until sv come out), I'm fucked lol.
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