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Forums \ Strategic forum \ ZvT: without mutalisks?
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1 year ago

Arirmind
ZvT: without mutalisks? (1947 reads, 32 replies)
Hi

I'm very poor with mutalisk harass + macroing. Everytime i do mutas against any at least avarage terran i end up losing with 3k minerals. If i could i wouldn't usa mutas at all but how i can expand and slow the coming terran push without them and perhaps stop tank drop in LT? I must get at least 3 gas and i don't like to rely on sneaky expos.

plz tell me any solid macro strategies against terran that doesn't include mutalisks. I don't want to lurker rush in every match.
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1 year ago
#1

BoxeR_Micro

   2
Lings + lurkers or hydra push. See Mondragon reps, usually he dont use muta.
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1 year ago
#2

GodsDevil[5thF]

   5
4 hach lings/hidra , gosu on azalea or arcadia
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1 year ago
#3

Arirmind

   2
Yes yes! Mondi has exactly the style that i'm looking for. Now i just mass watch his mutaless replays. Thank you very much.

Any small tips from lurker-ling-players?
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1 year ago
#4

Cho.

   1
lol #2 i see you are a fan of randleman's random victory over crocop =P

but yeah like they are saying the best thing to watch is mondragon's sexy use of hydra/lings
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1 year ago
#5

Lord_of_Chaos

   17
#3, you will still need the spire for scourges in midgame anyway. Important to not forget it our drops can shred you apart.
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1 year ago
#6

ducati

   2
tvz without scv's?
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1 year ago
#7

821

   8
I'd suggest you to practise on multitask. You need to multitask all the time not just when muta harrassing. Good Luck!
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1 year ago
#8

xyberkids

   6
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nhfcSrnkFWI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C4Hv8qMkrfI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=047YurQDsMI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tcN_WfxGPjY http://youtube.com/watch?v=AKgchs8Cz90
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1 year ago
#9

tuh

   2
thats a very good news for terrans like me well i think the pupose of mutalisk in the game is to harass the terran in the early game..like killing scv decreasing the amoput of marines or even destrying the supply depots. When you reached that point of harassment you can now make lurkers for you to attack a less amount of army. So make fast mutalisks to delay your opponent or outmacro him.good luck.
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1 year ago
#10

PdK.Scary

   5

you need to know what terran is doing and what is the better counter for it. you also need to know what is the best way to use your mutas, and ofc if mutas are the better option or not, you must know what is the better option to any terran build. more things to know: when to 2 hatch mutas or 3 hatch, when to make sunkens, when to make spire, gas, the time to expand, when masslings, when lurkers, etc.

what do you do against fe-terran ? against 1 rax/acad fast tanks push? 2rax/acad? are you always trying the same thing ?

99% of all the zergs are always making 12 hatch 11 pool build against Terrans.
which makes the terran-players to act like pro against that build order.
they know when to early attack you, when you have no sunken. when to make bunker-rush, etc.

maybe you should try different build orders.

i do generally make mutas when i do some harass w lings. and i do only make lings to harass is when i see the terran has only one rax and have gas. or only one rax and trying to fe.
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1 year ago
#11

MgZ)Ptak

   5
Mondragon and mutalisk only in zvz..other mu he never use muta...well i allways think he is a very good macro player...but he avoid micro...
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1 year ago
#12

Get.drunk

   3
try to start off with normal 12 expand 11 pool then gas when pool is half done and get fast lurkers lots of terran gamers makes the misstake in attacking and beliving that u still don't have anyting. since u tech so fast it work alot but don't put all your game into that tho.

so if u burrow and hold a bit outside your base or his(zergling scout so he don't see them) u can get a very good start.

note add 3. hatch ASAP after lair but don't stop making drones.
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1 year ago
#13

smurfaka

   3
2007-08-17 00:25:01, ducati wrote:
tvz without scv's?


that really shows the brightness of wc3 players, and wasn't even funny -_-
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1 year ago
#14

johii

   3
while we are on the topic of ZvT what to do if some enoying terran starts marin/bunker rush?

And what should the first upgrade be for my lurker/lings be?
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1 year ago
#15

#14 Bunker rush is very easy to stop these days except if your playing Boxer =D most send most/all of their drones w/o lings and kills the scv's building/marines before they enter the bunk and if the T went 8 rack and din't bunker rush you succefully he will be behind in game and can be overrun with lings And First upgr is usaly carpace
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1 year ago
#16

Nightmarjoo

   3
My muta control isn't terrible, but I have 0 timing with them, so like I go muta and even if I hide spire it's obvious from my larva count, or sunk count, and I come into t main with muta and he already has 20 turrets, can't even killed a depot or a single turret and my macro goes to shit and I get raped cuz I don't have lurks when he attacks.

I fix this by just never going muta; I use slow/fast lurk drops to harass, they work pretty well since t sees you going lurk and not muta, he will have fewer or no turrets. Any scans he uses to fight this drop are scans he can't use in the battlefield. Best scenario for him is he sees it and moves scvs to another base or out of the way (double lurk drops at main and nat are godly^^), and he's not mining until he gets units there to kill it. This also can make his nat defense less for a strong all out attack on it, or you can simply take map control and expo as you do this.

On the downside I forget almost every game to make a spire, and I have to run 2 groups of lings to my base to make him go back into his dropship TT
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1 year ago
#17

piyade

   7
2007-08-17 14:36:40, smurfaka wrote:
2007-08-17 00:25:01, ducati wrote:
tvz without scv's?


that really shows the brightness of wc3 players, and wasn't even funny -_-



if he is the real sefa then i must say he is one of the top notch terrans out of korea.. but it is not funny i must admit...

and for the question hydra lurk ftw !!!!!
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1 year ago
#18

Arirmind

   2
2007-08-17 19:51:23, Nightmarjoo wrote:
My muta control isn't terrible, but I have 0 timing with them, so like I go muta and even if I hide spire it's obvious from my larva count, or sunk count, and I come into t main with muta and he already has 20 turrets, can't even killed a depot or a single turret and my macro goes to shit and I get raped cuz I don't have lurks when he attacks.

I fix this by just never going muta; I use slow/fast lurk drops to harass, they work pretty well since t sees you going lurk and not muta, he will have fewer or no turrets. Any scans he uses to fight this drop are scans he can't use in the battlefield. Best scenario for him is he sees it and moves scvs to another base or out of the way (double lurk drops at main and nat are godly^^), and he's not mining until he gets units there to kill it. This also can make his nat defense less for a strong all out attack on it, or you can simply take map control and expo as you do this.

On the downside I forget almost every game to make a spire, and I have to run 2 groups of lings to my base to make him go back into his dropship TT


You wrote my story. I have played now 11 ZvT without mutas and results are more than good. I no longer hate to play vs terrans. Thx to you guys
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1 year ago
#19

moriendi

   3
2x group of muta micro + multi?

well its my opinion but yours, bad and good choices after? :E
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1 year ago
#20

whitestripes-

   1
2007-08-17 19:51:23, Nightmarjoo wrote:
My muta control isn't terrible, but I have 0 timing with them, so like I go muta and even if I hide spire it's obvious from my larva count, or sunk count, and I come into t main with muta and he already has 20 turrets, can't even killed a depot or a single turret and my macro goes to shit and I get raped cuz I don't have lurks when he attacks.


make hydra den at the same time as spire (i use 12 hatch 13 pool 13 extract ~16 hatch, hidden or at an expo). or u can place den when lair is 50% done like usual, and research and get spire at same time (if t isnt aggressive)
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