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    StarCraft news

    Starcraft 2 WWI Gas Mechanic

    Cavez has posted details about the new gas mining features introduced at WWI.



    You will now be able to restore 400 gas back into a depleted geyser for 100 minerals, Blizzard is trying out two geysers at each main, and Cavez covers possible strategies that are brought into the mix with this new feature.

    WWI Gas Mechanic - posted by Cavez

    Here is how it works. All numbers are subject to change. We have changed the balance since the WWI build and will be fiddling with the balance this coming week for sure.

    You start with two Vespene Geysers in your base and at every expansion (some maps will not do this of course, but all the WWI maps do). Optimal number of workers per gas collection building is 3 (so you need 6 total).

    All gas collection buildings start with a certain amount of gas (like SC1). I believe it's 1000 in your WWI build.

    When a gas collector runs out it becomes "depleted" (like SC1). A depleted gas collector still allows you to harvest some gas (like SC1). In the WWI build you collect 6 gas per trip from a working gas collector and 2 gas per trip when depleted.

    All gas collectors have a "Restore Gas" (name temp) button that you can use to return your gas collector to a non-depleted state. In the WWI build this gets you 400 gas back into your collector. Restoring Gas costs 100 minerals and takes the gas collector down for 45 seconds (all numbers temp).

    Like all things this is work-in-progress, but here is what we have seen in the games we have played:

    1) You can choose how much gas you want. The more gas you want, the less minerals you will have. If you build your 2nd gas collector too soon, you may have the wrong resource mix. If you go gas too late, you may have the wrong resource mix. If you use "Restore Gas" too few times you may not have enough gas to do some of the crazy end-game stuff. If you use it to often early on you may have too much gas and not enough minerals.

    2) Some of the more mass-able units are very, very gas heavy. You can scout a player and gain some sense which way he is headed based on how quickly he goes for double gas.

    3) Sometimes you don't want to "Restore Gas" if you need just a little more gas in the short term because you are trying to tech or build something critical. Since it takes down your gas collector for 45 seconds you may need to hold if you are close to being able to afford something that requires gas. This of course damages your gas collection for the long haul which makes the choice difficult.

    Why we are trying it:

    1) We think gas could be more interesting than it was in the original StarCraft.

    2) We think StarCraft 2 can benefit from additional economy choices.

    I think that's all of it. Now that you have complete information, please discuss. =) Sorry for the forum spam. I don't have the tools handy to deal with it.

    A new tactic for any build order that really allows you to fine tune your approach for maximum macro.


    Links
    Battle.net - The original post at the Starcraft 2 official forums
    Author: Kirk "Cotton" Panitz
    Posted: 2 months ago | Replies: 59
     

    Comments \ Paging
    1, 2 
     

    2 months ago
    #1 EffOrt (GosuCrew) 3
    nice work kirk
    2 months ago
    #2 LML (GosuCrew) 14
    uh... maybe not THAT bad ..
    2 months ago
    #3 ReiKo 4
    I dont like this...SC1 was good about balacing economics... dont fix it if ain't broken. Leave the dam thing alone.
    2 months ago
    #4 ishinken 1
    I don't believe it is good untill I've tried it to be honest
    2 months ago
    #5 Arew 5
    Weird one oO we'll see
    2 months ago
    #6 Therg 1
    I think the method where you allow more workers to mine from gas is better since it forces you to go back and move workers (on and off the gas).
    2 months ago
    #7 LeTaLiS 4
    I have no reason to believe that a change made by Blizzard is not for good.
    2 months ago
    #8 Saline 2
    This is the type of feature that we can't really predict how it will play until the players have progressed far enough.

    The initial 2-gas geysers is something that may only exist with Blizzard maps. Perhaps the game is balanced differently, so gas will benefit every race equivalently (in SC1, zerg needs gas the most). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    2 months ago
    #9 LUx 1
    well usually i'd say: "never change a winning team"
    in this case it might actually lead towards more strategies.
    unfortunately its even harder to balance.
    in SC1 gas heavy units such as vessels, defilers, HTs are kept in a rather smaller number... by adding this feature ppl can choose to go mass spell+special units. furthermore you actually gain ressources if you just pay 100 and gain 400 gas in a faster time. HT's only cost 50/150 in SC1... how will blizz make this balanced?

    i'd say that maybe in the end the sentence "never change a winning team" might be what blizzard holds on to. back to the roots instead of changing too much b4 any balancing had happened.
    2 months ago
    #10 DanyalDenyo 2
    i think it will be good for the game. it will increase the variety of the BOs. i hope it increases so much that it becomes impossible/pointless to copy a BO.
    2 months ago
    #11 Sp1ralArch1tect 7
    Lol #3 serious? Dont fix it if it isnt broken? That is exactly what Blizzard is doing right here, they have seen that making a sequel to Brood War would be disastrous. They know that it is nearly impossible to come close to the level of perfection that Brood War obtained, so they are departing from that style. Let them explore, let them see what they can change and switch around, have faith my friend Blizzard has never let me down before and I dont think they intend to do so now.
    2 months ago
    #12 ReiKo 4
    These are drastical changes, even when's Vampire (2 gas in main ) map is motw on ICCUP it makes me sick how it isn't well balanced and how stupid it is. What's so wrong with having one gas in main?

    "Gas return"??? what the heck? How can you return something that you spent?
    Like, there is a guy in gas geyser and he says : "Look, if you want extra gas you need to pay, ok??". It's ridicilous.
    2 months ago
    #13 SaviorSelf 1
    SC2 has many other features, like being able to select your entire army in 1 group, and macro buttons in it as well. People were wondering how to make it harder...well here it is.
    I'd like to hear more about the yellow minerals as well. And if there are any more colors of minerals besides just blue and yellow...what about black, x10 minerals :)

    EDIT: one more thing I was thinking about...maybe some units will ONLY cost gas. This could make things VERY interesting...
    2 months ago
    #14 lokiM- 2
    This is fucking stupid.. now most games will at least be 10minutes instead of 15-20minutes seems so imbalanced already, and from it looks like it looks too slow aswell, even Mondragon has stated he thinks its a tad bit slow.. IMO SC2 will be terrible for at least a year of patching and even then it wont be as good or better then sc1
    2 months ago
    #15 radi-x[vt] 1
    Imo it should be like 100 mins for 100 gas... Or maybe 100 mins for 200 gas.... It could be nice feature.
    2 months ago
    #16 Vaphell 2
    cool idea
    now you will have to think twice how much gas you really need. Gas heavy BOs will cost you many minerals because sending 6 peons to gas when you have 15 total is huge sacrifice. They will be viable but somewhat risky if opponent tries to overpower early with massed early units.
    And it is obvious SC2 will be imba for a year or more. Finding equilibrium takes some time, changing resource mechanics from SC1 style is unimportant.


    concept of paying for restoring geyser is not that unrealistic, oil industry does it all the time - you pay for using advanced mining techniques allowing you to tap resources previously unavailable.
    2 months ago
    #17 Pieman 2
    #12 LOL, "How can you return something that you spent?" this is not supposed to be realistic, or do you really think everything else in this game is?!

    2 months ago
    #18 waRmt 2
    #17 this isnt about realism, its ABOUT THE LOGIC!!! and i agree, DEPLETED MEANS OUT!!!! how do you pay more minerals to get more gas, where do the minerals go, who are you paying? the probes? to mine HARDER? the logic is just really flawed, it has potential to be explained but its far from what SC:BW is and its kinda dissapointing.
    2 months ago
    #19 HeteroHero 1
    omfg nifty features, can we also get full benefits and bonuses for workers so that they can retire at the sea shore after some time in the harsh mines?
    2 months ago
    #20 mj 3
    i really think its too fancy oO
    2 months ago
    #21 vis 2
    Personally i think it's a nice idea, but the old/normal idea still worked/works fine.

    Well... SC2 is a new game, and changes will have to be made. Lets just enjoy whatever happens.

    :)
    2 months ago
    #22 tuh 1
    is this complicated?
    2 months ago
    #23 banga_ph 1
    I think its worthwhile exploring this possibility. Once the game is out the balancing issue can always be fixed by patches (just like SC1).

    My real concern after watching games from WWI over youtube was how I could not really clearly distinguish units during an encounter unlike SC1. I don't know if its the quality of the video or the game itself. Seems the color coding of the game makes it less friendly for viewing if your part of the audience.

    Has anyone else experienced this?
    2 months ago
    #24 349191 3
    nvm im tierd
    2 months ago
    #25 4BiddenKnight 2
    Lol, ReiKo.

    If I was working for Blizzard, your comments would be one of those where I'd chew it up, spit it out & move on.
    2 months ago
    #26 O)rion 2
    These changes could end up giving a pretty interesting and fun result. Seems like it will give more choices and more strategies will be viable. Though the balancing will be difficult, but I have faith in Blizzard. A lot of people here need to be reminded that SC1 wasnt the perfect balanced game it is today for a couple of years, it needed an expansion and several patches before it became what it is, if you expect SC2 to be balanced when it comes out your wrong because it wont be, but hopefully it will be later on.
    2 months ago
    #27 Mancirith 2
    People is just afraid of some "too new options". Do not think they are going to make BW2 ;p... they try to make a game which is a lot different then many MANY years ago made BW. It's amazing (although ppl do not believe it) but Blizzard is actually trying to make a game which can be (and they want it to be) the very best RTS-game in the world (of ALL time).

    And you can be very sure that if it's "unbalanced" 100 minerals => 400 gas, they need just one patch or even before they can change it easily for example 100 => 250 etc.
    2 months ago
    #28 mighty 2
    i hate it allready
    2 months ago
    #29 mighty 2
    i think its impossible to balance prolly some races will have an edge with much gas late game etc
    2 months ago
    #30 -=kerrigan=- 2
    I like the idea... there is positive and negative side to it... overall it sounds good. I don't want sc2 to be just sc1 in 3D... I want a new game that is fun to learn and explore, to develop new strategies. This could potentially be part of it.

    Let's not be scared of some change. Also a total of 1000 gas sounds like very little. This technique of reviving the geyser with a down time would actually introduce an incredible amount of strategy.





    2 months ago
    #31 -=kerrigan=- 2
    To the "realists" out there: Just name the button "dig deeper" or "harvest deeper". In real life it cost money to dig the mine further, pay 100 mineral and you will access 400 more of resources: deeper underground. Makes 100% sense
    2 months ago
    #32 user_error 2
    I'd rather see some way to exchange gas for minerals, to keep a game alive on a mined-out map.
    2 months ago
    #33 MetalCharlySTG 1
    Well i dont want SC1 in 3D, better to have a new challenging strategic game than having the same one in 3D for other ten 10 years. Its in the human nature to resist to changes.

    Actually the new gas mechanism sounds pretty interesting and i have no doubt sc2 will be a great game with so many strategies and a lot of this will involve this gas thing
    2 months ago
    #34 Gi.Reaper 1
    Jeeesh, all this commenting. The people from Blizzard are just trying to keep us in touch with the development of SC2.

    We can't say anything for sure until we play the final, balanced version of SC 2.

    If you don't like that, play SC 1 for ten more years, until SC 3 comes.

    It's as easy as that..
    2 months ago
    #35 DanteStyle 1
    seems cool now protoss cant steal terran gas anymore thats one cheese pvt less 500 to go
    2 months ago
    #36 magic-man 3
    It is not the only way to have 2 gases in one base - you casn have one gas and then it will be strategicly even harder and that is good.

    Second - they do not get you more gas - the gas is there, they only get you chance to get it faster, but you need to spend extra 100 minerals for it and you have 45seconds when you have not mine any gas - you have to choose if you want to do it or not.

    I think that this is a good idea for timing, more strategies and yes it is somethng new what people doesnt expect - but it looks great for me -maybe it depends in balance but they can change 400 to 300 or less - or they can change the time from 45s to 60 or something - there is so much options.

    And dont be so angry, the complete balance started few days ago as they said - wait for more info and changes.
    2 months ago
    #37 NostaKhan 1
    I like this new option. Also, what must be keept in mind is, that you need more workers, which in the beginning will/can slow your pushes. So you have to deceide if and when you go for 2 gas stats. Also you have still the limitation of minerals. If you count the gas-restore as a unit you have to deciede if you buy it or not, if it is worth.

    You won't be able to build more units in the start-phase of the game, you still have to harvest the minerals required. Therefor I do not see fast-ending games. I more likely see faster evolving games.

    I look very forward to play this.
    2 months ago
    #38 ReiKo 4
    #25

    Then too bad Blizzard is making living out of my pocket and too bad I'm right about this issue.
    2 months ago
    #39 Nights_Judgement 1
    #18 maybe vespene gas comes from deep in the planets surface, and some extra minerals allows you to put tools deeper to harvest otherwise unobtainable vespene. I don't think the lore is that hard to comprehend.

    I think this sounds alright, will have to try it but my initial thoughts aren't negative, just curious.
    2 months ago
    #40 doc.suicider 3
    different units, different economy, different looks, different controls, all-in-1 unit selection, auto-mining....hmmm, this aint no sc...

    I will give this game a try, just like I gave W3 a try, I did finish campaign(great story), and nothing more.
    2 months ago
    #41 alphdan 4
    #17 IM Agreed, im ok with "its a fantastic world" where everything its possible yea but it has a base on what its possible on our real world so something soo ilogic would break the fantasy of the game at least that happens to me.
    2 months ago
    #42 SCTV 3
    actually i think they are introducing this because the game is hard to balance unit/BO wise, giving you a chance to make an Extra Economic choice if you need it or not. This could balance stuff out and could be fine tuned after BETA.

    if you want a fantasy story behind this unlogic ability--

    Refineries have a reserve tank to keep up the gas- pressure, if you use it "400gas" then you have a cool down time of X seconds before your regular production takes up again because the pressure tank must be re-filled again.


    research "gas burst" ^^
    2 months ago
    #43 jungsu 2
    the 100 mins buys burritos for your workers and thereby gives you more gas :P
    2 months ago
    #44 fighter[ra] 3
    #11 that's not true at all. blizzard is trying to make starcraft2 better then bw. people just don't like changes till they try them out. if it doesn't work out they'll remove it. they do have an ex progamer testing out their alpha before it even gets to beta.
    2 months ago
    #45 champignones 2
    -yeah thats what has blizzard so delay about SC2, they post a new feature they are testing to make the game more interesting and instead of seeing it like a idea to be, all this guys think this is a final and starts attacking it.

    - i bet my ass you will be having fun at SC2 when it comes out and you are here talking shit about it.

    -i dont see why you cant see this at a feature to be tested and maybe something it can turns out for a good maybe. and the word "testing" means anything to you? they are exploring new stuffs they will choose what they think right till the game is released and there are new stuffs that i didnt even know about and seem pretty nice.

    - so the game so far looks so good and you only find a minimum things to fight about. this feature is new so STFU and wait to see how can this make thinks better , what you have to do is to play the game instead of judging seeing this stuffs.

    -i think is better not to say anything to anyone and release the game without the knowledge of anyone because of this attitude of "new? = shit, old = cool" in that way you will be trully peaced off when it comes out.
    2 months ago
    #46 dnelson 1
    As it is now, there are ways to mine oil from fields that were considered "depleted" years ago. These methods are more expensive, and in most cases deplete the fields faster than they would be otherwise depleted. But in that sense the idea does somewhat make sense.
    2 months ago
    #47 [PKS]Cuber 1
    So many experts here. Wondering why aren't you pros in sc1 till now..
    2 months ago
    #48 iiN.ox 1
    rofl i like reading the complaints...

    why didnt they get the sc1 guy to make sc2?
    rofl they smoked a bunch of crack and made up some random shit
    2 months ago
    #49 SaviorSelf 1
    I think SC2 is going to be the same as SC1 with more strategy involved, and less physical actions.
    Think of zvp, zerg goes 2 gas rush, and makes 2 hatch muta from 1 bases...pretty much will destroy the protoss.
    2 months ago
    #50 gNs.I-Singu 1
    im not liking it.. its getting to complicated.. pah..


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