Searchret: Micro is almost non-existent in StarCraft 2
Posted by Patrik "Raistlin" Hellstrand 1 year ago
Jos "ret" de Kroon has posted his first blog on his new team LowLandLions' website. Ret is the second highest ranked foreigner in the StarCraft scene.His blog gives us a rundown of what he thinks about the current StarCraft 2 beta. He is irritated with the Terrans especially.
- It really felt like Terran was much harder to play than the other 2 races before the first two patches, and being a Random player it was frustrating losing over and over while playing Terran, says ret.
He also states that micromanagement in StarCraft 2 is almost non-existent compared to its predecessor StarCraft: Brood War.- Micro was always an element in which you could separate yourself from your opponent and take the lead in a game. I feel it wasn't really there in SC2. It almost feels like you just build up an army, try to scout and counter your enemy's units, and then just attack and hope for the best, says ret.
Then, he expresses how he misses the map control element from Brood War.
- You constantly have mind games and small battles going on from the start of the game. But maybe this is just because we haven't learned enough about the game yet.
He does point out, however, that a lot of the balance issues have been fixed with the two newly implemented patches.- Terran was made a lot stronger and all the races seem pretty, even with the limited information we have on how to play exactly. In the next few weeks, we will see how the balance holds up, and whether or not people are able to find cute tricks or strategies still hidden in the game to create challenging gameplay and tense/exciting games of SC2.
Make sure to catch ret's livestreaming hours available at Livestream.com.
| Links |
| LowLandLions.com - Full blog entry |
| Comments \ Paging |
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| LOL! Great minds think alike. The micro and the map control part is the parts that I've discussed a lot with my friends. Some might say that the micro is still a big part of the game, but I still feel that it doesn't play as a big role that it does in BW - althoug BW is (atm) a bigger macro game than SC2. Oh well, really early to discuss the game, but hopefully our concerns will adjust the game and make it the epic RTS experience we all hoped for. |
| yup |
| Well ionno, from the replays and vod's I've seen, terran seem overpowered, and protoss seem extremely weak. Also zerg Hydralisks are very overpowered.[ C'moon, even psi storms don't kill hydras from 1 storm =/ ] |
| heh =)) now ret dont need to learn how play ZvZ :D |
| RoX.KIS.Craft haha nice one |
| #3 that's because storm doesn't really kill much of anything anymore. |
| well said ret |
| we dont know much about the game, storm/coll rape hydra ;P but i agree, they need to add some micro elements again, the over-programmed ai is getting annoying, attacking whilst running away etc. come on blizzard step up to the task ;P |
| ^^ #3 yes T is soo overpowered that im the only T of the top 20 in my league... blizz is on a good way with balance. but T overpowered ? cmon ? P can do a lot more storm in SC2 and can do this very easy.. so imo its okay. about the news: imo its true that thed micro part is very low atm. but i think this will become a stronger part when every body has taktics to play and exactly know what to do.. ( so u have more time to micro marodeur and somethin like that ).. but mapcontrol is still a big part of a game.. macro too :P just wait and see how the game envolves.. :) |
#9 I'm 9th and the only T in my division to top 15  |
| If SC2 units have different range, attack speed, HP, speed, it implies that there's an optimal way of microing each of them. Ret's comment reminds me of the non-sense I hord during War3:BETA, at that time a lot of people were claiming that War3 would be a no-micro game because units had too much HP. |
| sc2 is a 3d game wont have micro |
| orly is a former romanian sc player who switched to wc3(not belgium player, romanian flag on the net looks prety mutch to the romanian flag) ..... |
| personally after trying it, I think it will not compete with sc1, microing with sc2 just sucks, and the animation is just like warcraft 3.. this game is horrible |
| @pN.sonny_c ...you have to tell ret about that not us ;D |
| tvt is the coolest mu, so much strategy and micro involved, the other mus not so much tvt is even more brilliant in sc2 than it was in sc1, seriously :P |
| the only micro in sc2 you will do is focus fire different units to get the bonus damage from some units other than this its just one 1a atack no need for 1a2a3a4a because you can group all your army and flanking/positioning is not possible |
| #9 Cast range of psi storm is nerfed also damage. I'm protoss and I just dont upgrade storm because Its just ridiculous ... gas and time expended arent worth . It's much more useful to make colosus and for killing mutalisks... well you cant kill them If u dont have 10+ Phoenix(check that fenixs only does 5 damage and +5 to light armor).  Happy now #19? |
| #18 phoenix man not Fenix (the Peruvian player), lol |
| it will take like 2 years to make game as good as brood war ... but maybe it will never be as good as sc |
| #17 ur so damn wrong, have u even played the game? t.t spells play a huge roll and there is alot of attack+move micro along with backing with dmged units. and trust me u will need to flank in most situations sc2 got less micro in small fights/harassments but when it comes to army vs army micro its just as high (speaking of theory in the units and not the keyboard speed requirements) #20 blizzard has grown about 10 years in how to design and balance games, they r gonna manage to balance sc2 alot faster than sc1, and not to mention how long they balanced the game before releasing the beta |
| Or they will take even longer to do so because there are a lot more elements that make up SC2. |
| THE UGLYEST AND stupid game , i've have ever seen |
| for me micro is splitting your army from psi storms. |
| and ... its only a name " BLIZZARD " the guys who make SC:BW is older now , the guys who make SC-2 was kids when the SC1 was made , so the BLIZZARD is just a name , the stupid warcrafters make SC-2 ;( |
| #18 Pro tip: Sentrys. Anyways I agree with ret. The unit AI has defeated its purpose in this game atm. They wanted to make a smarter unit AI that was less buggy, instead they made it "too smart" seeing how if you even try to micro your units you'll fail horribly, because the unit AI micro will always be better. Early aggression tactics fail because 80% of the time your units aren't doing what they're told to. I tell my zealots to move back, they keep engaging, I tell my zealots to take out probes, they attack the zealot. The retreating part is ridiculous, unless you SPAM move-command all the way back to your base there's always a chance that your unit will engage any hostile unit on the way or even turn around and engage the unit that's chasing you, which you in reality want to GET AWAY from in that situation. |
"the races seem pretty even now" |
| I thought exactly the same thing when i played vs A.I so nice ret, Ive been thinking about this the entire time when sc2beta came out. |
| So true Foru_Style :) |
| #21 OK im wrong and so is ret . |
| Old, but... Do you want some cheese with that w(h)ine? :D SC2 is so cool, I can't wait to play the final version. |
| #18 I think the Phoenix has 2 attacks, so its 5+5 x2, 20 damage a shot to light armor. But yea, Muta still own everything that's meant to counter them. You guys all talk like sc1 was perfect 2 weeks into its beta. You need to relax with all the negativity toward the game for a while...at least until you've actually played it... |
| I do not fully agree. Try microing marauders vs zealots, it works. EDIT: I meant reapers, ofcourse |
| Theres a lot of situations where you can micro really nicely actually... Yes, if your army gets hard countered by the opposing army, THEN you can't micro at all, while in BW you still could atleast do a little bit... But IMO that's not about micro but units countering themselves too hardcore in SC2. However, I'm also worried about the fact that there's too much hard counters. I wish the "tech switches" were a little smoother, especially as Protoss. If you go Robo and Z spots this, you'll die to Muta. If you don't go Robo and Z spots this, you'll die to mass Hydra because you won't ever get storm in time. Just an example. And yes, I know sentry's are good vs muta, but they suck against everything else and without an expansion you can't afford robo units + sentry + zealots. That however, is more of a map problem than a balance thing, because IMO P can fight well as soon as he has the natural [=> more gas] - but on most of the maps (except 3-4) taking the natural often seems like an impossible task. |
| stalkers are pretty good vs mutalisks.. I dont think the protoss has any problems air wise,specialy against the zerg.. The zerg suck air wise imo. |
| #21 Blizzard's last rts work is wc3, which is still not balanced - just look at the blade master. Experience mean nothing in this case. |
| From what ive seen there is plenty of micro in sc2, I find that for the most part the people who have hated sc2 from day one will always hate it. These are the people that hate change. Throwing around comments like "it will be just like war3" is based on nothg but pure ignorance. I keep hearing this sc1 = perfect balance You have got to be kidding me, perfect balance?? Its will known that terran is the strongest race in sc1 if played right. You call that balance?. stfu haters. |
| have to disagree a 100%, lots of stuff to micro that give you win, simple have to do it short list, zealots saving weak, avoid storm, feedback now, storms, split stalker focus fire to 1shot w/e your shotting Roach burrow down/up, baneling center targets, flanking lings, infester aoe, mind control so forth MM avoid melee, avoid baneling, avoid storm, avoid colossus, emp snipe, siege tank shift target, mediac saving, think you can find lots more if you try, overall saving weak units still very possible and grant lots of wins, easy argument fx ZvZ mass roach. |
| If sc2 were truly aimed at competitive play, they would have made it 2D. Only a 2D engine can provide proper and refined micro. Though WC3 has much micro in it, that is because of the large unit size and smaller sized battles. |
| race pretty even? Man the start in zerg is shit compare to protoss. And why the hell we don't have speed hydra, they are as slow as my wife cooking damn it. |
| #25 so true |
| #37 you are so right, people cant remember that wasnt blizzard who made starcraft balanced, but the players. You wanna try a tvz on challenge and still come to say me the game is balanced? You wanna try a Pvz on Blood Batch and still come to say the game is balanced? You wanna tell me the game is balanced, when a protoss can control 200 psi whit 4 hotkeys and zerg cant control 50 psi whit the same hotkeys? From this point of wiew, i see more balanced sc2 than sc1. So i think Ret is just arrogant by saying sc2 is not balanced, cuz he has no the experience to say that... or does he has play it for a year? |
| Micro was like the funniest part of the game :( And what i mostly enjoyed watching in a game or vod... |
| #43 lol at u, u must be max D+ player if u saying stuff like this + taking Blood Bath as an argument lol XD now some words of truth: - where are units like: carrier, dragoon, shuttle/reaver, goliath, vulture, tank, wraiths, rines, mutas, lurkers and much others. Each one had to be microed specific way, and u could NEVER masterize it (even at the very top we say that JF has brilliant rvr control, and others haven't). - These who say that SC2 is beautiful, great, fantastic game, most of u are D D+ C- players who can't find a way to get better in SC1 so u will try your best in SC2 which is simply easier (EG.Machine, ToT)Paranoid( agreed). - I'm hearing that SC2 is better because u don't waste time on things like moving workers to minerals. For your information, chess is the game u need. RTS game should require apm. And 1 more thing - I think ure going to play without Korea because I don't see a reason for Kespa to let SC2 into the progaming. There is a lot of older people 40 ++ who watch StarCraft and I doubt they would like to suddenly start watching something else. And oh well, imagine 1st person view of someone like Bisu in SC2. Does he need to keep his screen on his main base except a situation where he construct new buildings? No, all of your gateways can be controlled under 1 hotkey so in fact u don't have to do anything but keeping your screen at army (easy really points, auto-mining, big hotkeys including buildings) Yes, I'm a hater because u can't create any RTS better than StarCraft: BroodWar |
| This is for all starcraft players: This isn't a SCBW expansion, ok? Is other game. U can get used to or to stopping playing it. The reason for which all the terran lose is for that exactly they play as if it was the SCBW. REMEMBER, SC2 IS OTHER GAME, NOT AN EXPANSION. LEARN IT! |
| the fact is in most cases nothing is absolute. everyone is right and wrong in most cases because its mostly opinion. the game will go through lots of changes still and some people are either going to love it or hate it from the begining aswell. SC2 will take the thunder from SC1, but SC2 is ALOT different than SC1, this makes the old schoolers very angry. now my opinion: -.-v ive talked to and seen a few players that have been playing sc2, they come back to sc1 and they just suck terribly, the required skill and labor in sc2 is no where near sc1. to me that takes the competitive edge out of it alot. this game seems more like its been built to be more of a game and not a competitive game. SC1 is newb friendly a little bit, SC2 is EXTREMELY newb friendly. i have WoW friends that are doing VERY well in SC2 but in SC1 they are the king of newbs.... EDIT: Agree with Bonyth 9000% :D |
| SC2 is other game u say, but somehow races are called: zerg, terran, protoss. Oh dear! Exactly same as in StarCraft 1 XD How u want to play it the same way as in SC1 when for example in tvp u don't have even vultures? They CAN'T play it the same way because u don't have all the units u had in sc1, yo. edit: agree with previous poster =] edit2: lol we added the 1st edits exactly the same time XD |
| And sorry but many units are called same as on BW ... so might mean something ;) Moreover the caracteristics of each units are pretty similar, and you can use the same strategy on SC2 than on BW ... like fast zealot upgrade 1 + archon will work once again well on SC2 versus Z :P To me SC2 is more like an expansion, same races, same units with new ones ... SAME MAPS... |
| There is a little micro present in SC2 but most of the stuff is way easier in this game than in SCBW. But this is still BETA .. you shouldnt forget it. ofc there will be balance issues as new tactics are employed and discovered each day. It is still so early to comment this harshly. I just hope that psi storm gets better. now it is so much money and doesnt worth it. |
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