SearchBalance Patch Coming
Posted by Jimmy "DJTyrant" Blocksom 1 year ago
Bashiok has responded to a thread on the StarCraft 2 general forums, quelling concern that balance changes wouldn't be coming till the next expansion.
With the game only being out for three weeks, there has been a fervor of complaints about Terran being too powerful in the game and other races not being able to keep up with Terran players of the same skill level, players of all skills levels have been noticeably been very vocal about the situation, most notably the Zerg player IdrAIdrA.
Full response to the thread is here:
(Hopefully this doesn't read too harsh, it's been a tough Monday. ;) <3 <3 <3)
Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting.
Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.
Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.
We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.
That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting.
The differences between Korean and American realms was brought up a lot during the beta, and most recently the most recent BlizzCast. Do you think this is something that can be fixed to balance the game in both regions? What changes do you think should be made?
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| #11 has the most appreciate point of view imo. He just says everything right there. I mean not a single protoss or zerg can do the same kind of stuff as terran atm. It's impossible to be prepared for everything in every game. Even scouting what terran is up to might not be enough main of the times. You scout the banshees a second late and the first one is out he is right above your mineral line and you can quite much gg if you did not place an evolution chamber early game. That's really harsh. Queens take long to produce and I don't have interest to go 4 queens in every game just because I am scared of banshees. There was a time I did that every game vs. terran: just massing 6-7 queens every game before teching anywhere. It's sad it lost vs. quite much every mech strategy but did good against air rushes. If the terran understood to scout he didn't run his banshees into mineral line guarded with +5 queens. I just think terran has too many cards in the game. The opponent needs perfect scouting and understanding of the game in order to counter a very simple terran strat. And most of everything some decent terran players even know how-to mix-up their army a bit. Hey I started with 4 reapers ok the zerg countered that I change to air - mech - whatever next appears in my mind. As a zerg against terran I feel like even vs. someone who doesn't really play any better than me I need huge huge work to win. I need to work all the time on all fronts just to counter that one trick terran prolly pulls halfway through. And the guy who said zergling speed counters reapears they the most certainly don't. Just run around on a cliff until zerg gets bored of you hitting him from higher ground or just running away. It's not a piece of cake to surround them when their speed is upgraded. Notice terran can also improve the speed of them. Yes Zerg can win vs. terran. Terran is not unbeatable. Zerg just needs to do so much more. It's a bit like orc vs. race x in war3. You know all the time what the orc is up to still you cannot produce each counter in time. The same applies to terran in sc2: you can scout everything he is going for and still you cannot counter it all. Terran changes strats like wind: first starting with bio ok did not work i am getting mech now if mech failed he gets air and if that fails he starts dropping bio around the map. This all comes out easily of the very same "basic" build. Your opponent needs to spam buildings like hell to win that. Not to talk about the maps: maps like LT are just maps where you can type gg before the game starts when you see terran. Each terran who knows how to make medivac and drop a tank on high ground wins vs. zerg easily. I played vs. a fellow terran and he did that in 4 games in row. Each time I knew it was coming, each time I tried to change to do something different or to re-time my expansion. Each time it failed. The terran flew above that cliff next to my expansion and looked "wups he is now prepared for that i'll just go another strat or expand myself and he cannot do shit about it since he was all day long prepared for me doing this one cool trick" Whenever you ask a terran player what should I do different in ladder as zerg they give you an endless line of bullshit. Like when I lost vs. a bioterran on LT (he did that drop on the cliff) i asked what can I do? The guy told me "hey just go tier3 and get broodlords" I said if i do that your strat kills me before I get there. Then I asked him to play visa versa with races on the same map. I totally humiliated his zerg 4 times in row with the same strat he had played. Changing the races shouldn't change the winner guys. When the game is balanced by changing race you don't get any advantage. |
| TO ALL THE ZERGS: Please, stop complaining! Watch a lot more Korean Zerg replays and LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME ;) No hard feelings :) |
| I just read the 50thor vs Ultralisk but.. i don't understand. Thor are 6Suplys. so 6x50 = 300. Do i have the same game ? I can't pass 200 XD |
| I wonder what the big difference is between korean z v t and everywhere else z v t. Many zerg's seem to complain about reapers and tanks, and in the korean replays I have seen tanks weren't used very much because the zerg players were going HEAVY mutas. You can't start pumping a ground only unit when you have to deal with a ball of mutas that can one shot missile turrets. I have seen some korean terrans reaper harass zergs but they fought it off with early speedlings. I would be interested to see what Blizz has to say is so different between the play styles of the match up. |
| i rly can't understand how people compare all-.- the races are different so zerg don't have to need units t1 like terran... the zerg are very very strong and if people don't know how play they should'nt fix it -.- |
| @all terran players telling zerg players to learn to play: take zerg go play 20 games vs. terran and show me the outcome! Show us how to play zerg, we don't know! |
| Really after reading all of this .. I'm a random player (like gold. Think i'm worst in terran thou. Maybe silver with ran). i loose a lot versus terran but not because of imbalance or something. They can do a lot of strategies and it's hard to know what they will do. And when i face a wall of bunker tank i don't know what to do. But lacks of scooting kills you versus terran a lot. Game is pretty balanced to me. And the fact that i don't beat terrans players... Is because i'm not that good ;) Reaper rush... ok maybe on desert oasis. But you have queens with Zerg and A LOT of player forget that Queens can HEAL. and if you see banshee. You got two queens and heal each other u'll take down banshees really fast (like void rays but need a third queen sometimes). |
| I dont know at what level you all play at personaly im a dimond player and some one said that 4 gate vs terran is to imba. That cant be more wrong if the terran got some skill and uses a scan he see the 4 gate and build 2 bunkers in front of hes base and he can easily def. And when the bunkers starts to get low life the terran move some workers to repair. And the protos can newer bust it. And during this time the terran can just buld a banche + clock and he auto win cos the protos wont have any detection cos he maid a 4 gate. And even if this dosent happen and lets say that the protos got some worker kills and is infront of the terran in economy the terran will just get a few tanks and he can turtle like there was no tomorrow. But the bigest problem is that the terran can make 20 different builds and the protos can only make 1 against the terran. And that is 1 gate, 1 or 2 gas, cyber core. If he dosent and the terran builds 1 reaper it is gg the terran wins. And the replays i have seen with terran vs zerg the zerg got no good counter to the terran metal. Yeah shore you can get some roches vs the tanks and thor but if the terran only gets on 2 base and turtle up and on a good timing moves out sinc the normal reaction from the zerg is the grab 1 or 2 more exp the zerg wont probably have enogh army to def. But if he dont grab more exp he wont have enough any way. It is so hard to build enough drones and enough army. And the zerg cant hinder the terran from scouting but in scouting terms all the zerg can do is to put a overlord over the base and hope he gets to see something before it is take out. So nerf the moroter/ghost to balance the tvp and nerf the thor tvz. That is what i think. |
| I dont wanna discuss the balance of the game. I have alot of fun playing it. :) Im a terran player but that doesnt mean I agree nor disagree with what is said about terran in here. I just want to state that what you can do when you lose to something repeadetly is one of two things: - Find a way on how to beat it - Adress an issue about balance isnt it too early to give up fighting what has been kicking your ass game after game? |
| even in korea, although it looks like the most skilled players are zerg, the zergs are struggling. If you watch enough replays, you'll see that most terran players suck, but still get around %50 win ratio at very high levels. You can bring this Korea vs NA and EU region comparison all you want. I am intelligent enough to see how imbalanced this game is. im so delighted that u are much more intelligent than blizz! what would all our great games be without you..... no seriously, how can u imagine that u know if smth is imbalanced? there isnt anyone who uses one of the races to his full potential but if people are better u always need smth to blame dont you? |
| The imbalance, if we can call it like that, is indeed the very wide range of strategies Terran can adopt, a lot more than any other race. The best counter being a Z or a P is to expand and to secure till mid/late game in order to beat out the T1 units the T made. Problem: T1 is the main part of the terran, so even in very early game, he produces a lot more units and also the best T1 units. So you either got to be well placed on the map to defend your base and your natural, in order to turtle like a genius, or to be greatly offensive - or pretend to be - to prevent him from moving too much, but then he would drop/banshee you. So the imbalance, at least to me, isn't about units themselves but game stages strength/weakness : as the terran seems a lot above Z/P in early/mid game, this tend to rebalance itself once latemid/late. But surviving and having a better eco than the T by this time is really,really tough. |
| I think the game is imbalanced but not exactly on how ppl wraite about it: Im a P player and i foudn out, the only way to "play it safe" is to make a very strong rush "before the terran has even his baracks up", and then have a perfect balance between agresivenes/macro/tech, to actually manage to win. This requires very high multitasking as well as very good game expirience. Also, while watching some youtube videos on "how to" stop this or that kinda atack from terran, i noticed that protoss rely on much more than the terran to even survive (like Marine maradeur push), where you have to use forcefields well, or u basicly lost the game. I cant be sure about if im simply not good enought, but the point is, if a terran is any good and dosent waste those units, considerating how fast u can build stuff in starcraft 2, while you are still trying to survive, your enemy might already be going something else. I have also found out that its quite hard to overcome a good massling user, basicly cus you have to make a wall at your ramp to have a chance to even go out of your base (in starcraft 1, once u get zealots with speed u could go back to your base but in sc2, speed on zealots is not even close to speedlings). Basicly zealots/stalkers/sentry are useless untill u get something extra for them (hallus,blink, +1 atack), becouse lings alone in big numbers will be enought to kill you. Sure, u can use forcefields well, but assuming your enemie is not a dumbass, he will flank you. EDIT: Forgot 1 thing that kinda surprises me: the Maradeur/Stalker imbalance. I know its not like thay are the same unit type, but the fact that maradeur does 20 damage vs stalker and stalker 14 vs maradeur is sick. I know that stalker have more life, and that would be all nice and good if any of the upgrades for the stalker were actually any usefull in those fights, once still is there, the same range, but thiner maradeurs give them a higher atack ratio in any sitution, not to mention maradeurs cost less than stalkers. |
| ffw_rude you're irrealistic. Zergs don't forget that Queens can heal but zerg happens to need the mana of queens in the beginning quite much just for spawning additional larva and spreading the creep. Of course if zerg was every time sure there was an airrush coming up he could / should / would reduce the number of larva and instead save some mana for healing. But that's the point in case because mainly you just need that additional larva for having fast production. it's that simple. You also need to connect your original base and your expansion for being at least to some degree defend it properly. And like I said in my earlier post just to "hinder" one possible outcome of the game (one possible terran strategy) I don't wanna delay all my tier2/ter3 production just in order to defend that one which could occur 1/10 games. |
| I don't want to sound like a jackass but you mentioned that terrans should play zerg... I PLAY ZERG from time to time and I win so easily by just containing the terrans with mutas, just like they do when I loose vs them. I know terran is a strong race, but I don't think it's easier to play on non-pro level. I can play zerg without adapting to my enemy because I decide what's going on on the map. His early pushes --> 2 spinecrawlers... his thordrop --> 2 spinecrawlers = 2 openings don't work anymore. With simple muta harrassment and speedlings, I can win games vs 750 points diamond players, which are more then I myself have (around 600). And another thing I noticed, when I loose to zerg, they are often terran players playing zerg from time to time, because they are not occupied whining, but testing vs what they are loosing, and yes, we loose vs zerg from time to time. Zerg wins are always the same. They just do the same than terrans do, they camp in their base and harras. Not to hard to do. The difference is, they just take more expansions because they have mutas and you can't do much at that point of the game. So then you go out of your base with thors and stuff --> he kills all your workers and comes back in time to defend because your thors are slow. This means you can't push out of your base while he harrasses you. Let's put it this way: YOU can win by pushing out and loosing your workers, it's often possible, but it's risky, who wants to win just by risking everything. I'm not the do or die player. I don't want to loose coz I might win a game. That's the point of view I have of the matchup. It's maybe a bit unfair when it comes to early harrassment from terran, but you loose vs terrans that just risk to kill you with something lame, not by playing a real game. When you loose vs defensive terrans you should stop playing, your tier 3 is very strong against terran. |
| I agree with everyone that MMM is a strong build against P or Z. In TvP you can use vikings to counter colos and ghosts to counter imm/sentry/HT. This doesn't mean that TvP is imba, to every unut there is a counter, I think we can all agree on that. But what bothers me the most is what has happend to the terran mech. Remember the siege tank in SC1, it did 70 damage when it was sieged. They redused it to 60 in SC2, ok I can live with that. But than they changed it to 50 damage witch is REDIC!!!! Hellion range was increased, later decreased. Thor's 250 mm canon has now to be researched in the tech lab. The mech is extremly less powerful now. Stalkers are a lot more effective against siege tanks how strange it may sound. They should increase the siege tank's damage to 60 again. The most imba matchup I think is PvZ. I just can't imaginate how a zerg ground army can beat a protoss ground army. Colos are sow powerful (not that they are overpowered) against the zerg's groundarmy. The zerg will need to hit the P from air. I am diamond in 1v1(rank 80 -> haven't played in a while) and 2v2 (rank 2 -> played a lot of 2v2 last night and made a great progress). I play zerg and protoss as well, both very fun to play and I wouldn't say that T is imba at all. I am not telling this because I'm a terran but because I never had a moment in the game when I thought 'hmmm terran is a little overbalanced here'. If they wanna nerf the bio, fine. But they should make the terran mech more powerful. Hope no zerg or protoss players get offended. (srr for my bad linguistic skills) |
| Terran Imbalance must be fixed ! Almost everyone is struggling against them and i dont want to see all the tournaments ending in TvT because of Terran which can open literally anything and win ... |
| Just hold on and wait for patch, and we can all swim in a sea of terran players tears. |
| craftmatic2 Reapers are easy for deny ,just build 1 sunken colony at each expand (if you go for fast expand)+Queen instead of spaming zerglings that are useless About the banshees L2spy your opponents........ About you...you troll ,there is a link in ""KhaLaS-"" comment , that's where you should post ^.- |
| #65 colosus take long to build, zerg automated counter against them is:Air, Neural parasite. |
| If you think Terran is imba, try playing Terran and you will know how hard Terran is against zerg and toss. |
| #57 thanks, thats what we needed a gold player (random) to tell us that queens r good vs reapers.... |
| #70 i have, and i think its quite an easy race to macro/micro actually (im zerg main) especially if u go MMM as terrans, its practicly no macro skill req at all |
| Everything he said is common sense imo. |
| #73 who ? |
| #36 I find that to be very insightful actually. Changing OL speed to Tier one would solve like... EVERYTHING! (Overseer and Drop should of course still be tier2) |
| cmon zergs stop crying go learn to play ^^ |
| It's quite funny that most posts here are made by terrans :/ To many players out here : Reapers > lings you just make the upgrades which is insanely cheap for the outcome it gives you. You simply need roaches. Queens die to 3 reapers if microed properly. There might not be a problem on lower levels but about 1k+ diamond it gets really annoying. I even try to surround reapers from 2 different sides with lots of speedlings but if you got 3+ speed reapers it's impossibile. And i agree reapers are not that big problem in PvT. Banshee killing workers in 3 hits would be smarter too, if you got 2 banshees now and you approach enemy mineral line it's not possible for him to defend it without losing at least 8 workers. And again - terran can do this at ANY TIME HE WANTS TO, you need to put defense there (every expo) and in the end terran might not even attack. What's more you need detection in many places. 1 OBS is not enough, especially when it can easily be killed by raven. |
| This reaper/banshee probleme everyone is been talking about, it can be solved by changing the queen because she is a good counter to both of them. Increase her damage from 8 to 12 for ground, increase her ainti-airdamage a little bit and her HP to 200. She isn't called queen for nothing, just make her a little stronger. I personly think she is pretty weak to be called a queen. |
| more important to fix the dischack issue -.- |
| Haha, blizzard is saying that north americans are just noobs? Upload some top level korean zerg replays thx, so NA and pretty much everyone else can learn... |
| I like how random players from gold league come here to tell us that Terran isn't strong, and that they win with pure Skillz.... Go read what top Zerg players wrote about them(Dimaga, Idra, both of them winning the tournaments in Beta) and the top Terran players also(Morrow for example). They all have agreed that in TvZ, Terran has the advantage. |
| I so love reading all this "opinions" :D Most guys dont even know this game properly.. Reapers is a game-ender.. Nuff said.. And Dimaga switching from Z to T is a too obvious reason why Reaper rox.. I recommend u ppl to check Lastshadow play reaper harass until he have 10-15 marauders and can kill Z on any map! Changes are going to be made to this game.. Question is will Blizzard fix the correct things or are they noob also. GG /MeSaber |
| If P is so bad why did Nvidia Gosucup go like this : http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/12807-socke-huk-qualify-for-nvidia-gosucup-playoff Imo , the protoss i play against , go very often phoenix if they see fast tech (big chance of tanks or banshee), if you see a banshee or tech lab on starport with your phoenix you just make canon or robo and go expansion. If you dont want to do this tactic you can go 1 robo obs and see what terr does, 1 colossus is great for fast expand if terr goes alot of barack , and then ht / zealot / stalker as usual, because terr will make like 6 vikings then which as basically useless against zealot ht stalker. What most protoss fails with is spreading out immortals / sentry / ht, and they all get EMP:ed at once, most terr will not have more than 1-2 ghosts until they get expand up, and even then they very seldome have more than 3-4 , while protoss will use all their gas on HT's most of the time and because of that very often have 12+ hts, which is impossible to EMP. Good protoss players adapt, bad protoss players makes 5 collosus because they saw alot of marines and then whined when 12 vikings came and oneshotted all their colossus. The only whine i can agree on is that tanks dominate smaller maps too hard, they are one of the best units in the game if protected or in mass :( |
| Agree on Tank issue Trek.. Tanks dont suck at all.. They are strong as shit if you protect em. Though i seldom see any Tanks being made, only in 3v3,4v4. |
| seriously stop telling that crap about "top 20 are only zerg in korea" Look at # 46 please -- 10 of the top 20 are zerg in korea my butt. There are 8 zergs in the top 20 and only 2 of them are in the top 10 and none of them are in the top 5. While there are also 8 terrans in the top 20 and 3 of them are in the top 5. |
| Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. atm blizz/<ctivision would even ban people for doing nothing to force them to buy a new game.... 10 euro for namechanges... seriously blizz was the best gaming company in the world but nowadays money means more to them then happy costumers whick makes them just as EA or shit like this =( |
| Why the fuck would you want to change your name? Stupid idea.. Make it able to have 2 different characters instead. |
| #3:"while thinking about it I think Zerg needs something that replaces the Lurker. Sure the Zerg got Banelings with alot of damage, but the problem is that Zerg doesnt have anything as a Tank or Collosus. Zerg lacks range?" ehm yes.... maybe brutlords?! |
| go go go Terran nerf :D sunshine is comming for zerg early game vs T :D |
| There has been a lot of stupid posts, but I'll just say that: It is not possible to lose as Terran, if you play without mistakes. If both players plays perfectly and makes no mistakes, Terran always win. That's it. |
| #88 how can even compare the highest tech unit of zerg to equals of protoss and terran? They're not the same. I do kinda agree with him. Zerg lacks range big time. You need to be exactly next to your opponent with every start. And like i explained before that's not alone the problem: the problem is zerg cannot do a shit in the early game. "Scary zerg, not before 15 minutes" is like the truth to me. Zerg has got only a very few openings in the game and they're all easy to scout. imho atm zerg is better than protoss is a long game (if i get the game to run much more than 20 minutes i win most of the protoss opposing me) but zerg is really weak in early game. There're like 4 different timing pushes for protoss that work vs. zerg and there're like 10 different timing openings of terran that do perfect versus zerg. And yes mutas can be extremely effective if the opponent doesn't scout them. If he does scout them once you arrive with them wups an expansion of terran is up and in both expansions there's a thor standing. Then he will just turtle until he has got a proper army and here we go again. If i win one fight vs. terran i'll have to go back and secure my advantage even harder (more expansions) etc etc. Whenever I attack a good push to terran or a push i think is good if it fails he will push all the way to my base and game quite much over. Zerg lacks recoverability the most. It's quite much one bad fight and gg for the zerg. Sad as it is. In the early game, in the lategame it's the whole story. |
| Zerg got range.. Hydras.. And they are super good but expensive like hell compared to their health. Also Broodlings got huge range.. And they are sick good if used properly.. But takes ages to reach for that tech. Edit: Oh and for every 4 hydras/roach u need a new lord :/ |
| This is my opinion only: I feel like the builds that are viable vs T while P are sort of preset, ill go into more depth. Zeal build is a no no. reapers are to much of a threat to go heavy zeal so Stalker it is... You have your two stalkers and your a happy guy so now you expect MMM so you pump Zeals Stalkers Sentries and Immortal as a quick counter. He goes Banchee. pump stalkers to counter. You hold it and take a few out. Now i am gonna go Templar. You go Templar. He is at your natural with MMM and maybe a Tank or two. EMP £%*!... This is in my experience but is every game the same vs T same BO same units same battle. I dont see why Collosis is as viable as a Templar as one EMP and your still dead. At least Templar can feedback and storm. The main BO is exactly the same. SC was different you could go Reaver drops, Goon harras. FE was more viable because medics couldn't just pick up the army and go around the cannons. I just think the choice for opening is broken as their is only really 1 way to go and the game still plays out the same EVERY game. But i could be wrong. |
| If you see the other guy has ghosts u of course needs to feedback before he does anything.. Or else ure just stupid. |
#15 Ok, you're exaggerating. They are not "single handedly" ending anything. I think they're most apparent in TvT to be honest. Protoss players should ALWAYS have a Robotics Bay against Terran. And Zerg can also morph Overseers and use their Queens. I take it you haven't played or watched many games above bronze? I've watched many top replays and live streams of pro tournament games, and the single most powerful "trick" unit in Starcraft 2 is the Banshee, and they DO single handedly get the GG...you don't even have to do anything else many times other than just park a banshee in the opponents mineral line...I've seen it in 200apm replays and puremiss livecasts time after time even going back to the late beta and certainly continuing now, especially in TvT and TvP, as usually there is nothing the opponent can do about it till they've already lost half their workers. As for the reapers, for those who continue to say they are balanced....have you...played...starcraft 2? Did you watch that replay? That was one of the top 3 Zergs currently in the world and he was basicly helpless....and no...3 queens didn't do shit against 3 Reapers...nice try... and if you open fast stalker to counter a tech lab, then your stalkers just die if he opens marauder instead of reaper... |
| Reapers should be nerfed somehow yes. Thats a fact. And i never see any top replays where Banshees do the GG vs Zerg. And im watching HayPro and Dimaga. |
| where was your stalkers if you died to a banshee? |
| dont nerf terran just make zerg better. If terran is nerfed clearly protoss will be op now on |
| so i was doing mass marauders and muttas came, its ridicilous that zerg can hide their tech and make mass units out of 2 hatch and making GG |
| Do Reapers for scouting. Also you should see with scanner if enemy got Lair. Fighting Hydra or Roach are the same build. |
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