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PvT drops thinking

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#1 anatase


    Hex0r PotM

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:24 PM

I open this thread in order to centralize though on how to counter good/constant drops from a terran

If you wanna see what i mean by good and constant i invite you to watch the MinYeSeul vs RenieHour replay [url=http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/36368]here[/url]

In the commentary from that replay you see a lot of terran players telling MinYeSeul (T) outmicroed RenieHour (P)
No doubt he did, he played brilliant.

Fact is, the MMM is really a mobile strategy, and a toss won't be able to immobilize any terran at equivalent micro.
So you're only way is to be offensive and not let the T drops you.
At ~equivalent income you will lose if you can't position well your zeal/stalker/sentry/col/ht ( remember vs MMM ) which is possible by a good use of the sentries.
With C.Shell and Stim pack though, it is really hard to get the wanted position.
So being offensive is hardly viable at equivalent income

You thus need to outmacro the T: 2 solutions
- taking a new expo
- destroying the T natural

Destroying the T natural is impossible as it requires to be offensive and in order to be offensive you need to outmacro the terran.

Taking a new expo :
it will temporarily slow you down and thinking about pressuring the T is really risky
But let says it passed
You have now 1 base + 2 expo
which means you have 3 economics weak points.
At that moment it makes no doubt the T can drops you whenever and wherever he wants.

Since you have to secure your 2ndexp and get back your economic delay you will be in a unfavored position.

So to protect your main/nat/exp you have to split up your army OR to spawn units in each, lowering your main army.
Good way to counter a drop is either stalker (125/50*4) or 2 HT to psy storm.

HTs are more interesting to use, it is more price/damage efficient than the stalkers.

So now you only have to micro and to wait till your economic advantage worth it
But, at equivalent micro i assume it is impossible to stop a good terran from dropping you and destroying one of your 3 nexus ( which will take only a few seconds with 2 medivac full of marau +stim)
You, therefore, can't use your macro advantage.

So you have to outmicro your T opponent to outmacro him and to win
which i admitted not possible at equivalent micro,

I will conclude by this:
Winning vs a terran at equivalent skill is not possible unless uber cheese or stupid 4gatepush.

What do you guys think about it, this is theory and experience inspired.

What do terrans think about this ?
Protoss ?
Even zerg ?

Please i want some serious thinking on this and it is not made to start an "terran is OP thread".
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#2 KitKat


    Repick Meepo

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:53 PM

Seriously fusing medic and dropship into one unit was a mistake. If u see medivac u dont really know if its only for healing purposes or so he can do some drops(its healing rate is also great).Not to mention maruders kill buildings in few seconds. Usually i try to build 1 cannon in mineral line, just in case. P got warp gates so he can quickly warp some zelots or ht. When i see he tends to drop i leave one ht close to each nexus of my new expo ( usually i forget to do this ;d). And u can win with terran who is on same level as u without a cheese or 4-gate. ht drops in mineral line are also very deadly. When i play PvT i usually want to pressure from the start than survive first maruder push and than just outmacro him. Just some thoughts im no pro and im now switching from Z to P so any experienced P who got some overall advices in PvT mu would be nice.
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#3 SyNK


    Repick Meepo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:43 AM

HT's + feedback.

medivac with full energy is dead.

less energy just makes it a shuttle.

If the T is being aggressive i like to pylon/ cannon my expos then push his nat ASAP.

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#4 StarSLayeR


    Repick Meepo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 06:34 PM

#2 got to love your name
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#5 DreJan


    Random Meepo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:47 PM

The matchup is indeed in terrans favour but its not impossible to win vs an equal skilled terran in a macro game lol.
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#6 PsychoBaBas


    ZSMJ Medusa

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:14 PM

why not cannons?
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#7 SyNK


    Repick Meepo

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:01 PM

a few cannons are great map dependant. but i wouldet over invest in them
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#8 GooseBoy


    Dendi Pudge

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:45 PM

Blink Stalkers to snipe down medivacs before they arrive.
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#9 chimthegrim


    Full-Team Black Hole

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 06:18 AM

#8 you're assuming that the stalkers would be in position in time, and also that he saw the medivacs coming. It seems like pheonixes can be very usedful against terran in some instances (vs tanks and medivacs).
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#10 ath


    Mania Earthshaker

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:51 AM

yeah Gooseboy, nobel prize for the advice.

what i do is put an obs near terrs base to see his main army. If this is not possible because he has turret or a bitravewe i just put my obs a bit lower so i know when he pushes out. meanwhile i split my army into 2 or 3 groups, depends on number of expos and the size of the army. I leave them sitting there and if terr doesnt go for drop and simply pushes mid, there is enough time for my 2-3 groups to come together. it isnt really that big of a deal.

what i hate tough is when i go playing without collos - only gate units (with ht ofc) plus 5-6 immo, that 1 good hit from ghost is instant gg, so i try to keep my army collo heavy. the usefull thing about collos build is that 70% of terrs go for vikings, and they need to be microed which splits his attention from the MMM and sometimes they forget to stim again, or or pull back or w/e.
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