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Why I am not a christian

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#1 blane625

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:04 PM

This was a forum entry from a guy called Dallas470 that appeared on a philosophy website that I semi-frequently visit. It just seemed to hit the nail on the head as far as what I also happen to believe. Enjoy.

Please feel free to bash each other, but please think about what you're saying before you type it, unless you want to be bashed back!







Part 1

Dallas470

Actually, I used to be quite serious about religion. When I was in college, I joined an interesting pentecostal group that seemed decent. Why not? I came from a southern baptist church, had been baptized, born again, did cartwheels in the sanctuary every sunday the whole deal.

We had quite a group. Many of the students were from international countries, and in fact, the pastor of this group as well as the students that were training for making a career out of missionary work, ended up marrying these international students, to show that they are/were citizens of the world. I even saw the pastor's wife walking around wearing something like this: , many times, in the hope that an african student would be visiting that day.


My pastor started encouraging me to get into the gifts of the pentecostal faith, such as speaking in tongues and such, to further my relationship with god. At this time, the pastor visited and smelled beer on me that I'd drank an hour earlier. This was only 1 beer, and would hardly get me drunk, but my pastor seemed pissed and later had a talk with me about it. I didn't think a lot about it at the time, but this was a big thing. My pastor also objected to my participation in a fraternity, saying that too much pressure would be placed on me.

I didn't really agree with this, so I continued to drink and occasionally dabble with smoking weed; and I've always been a pretty disciplined person especially with drugs/alchohol so I couldn't see these things negatively affecting my life. Perhaps the pastor had a point when he said that these things were there because the devil planned it.

I decided to just keep my activities on the DL, after all, I only disagreed with the pentecostals over this one, seemingly insignificant and non-theological item. I even brought new members into the group, and met a future fraternity brother, Andrew, that I would later smoke many a lazy bong hit with.

Things were going good, and the group even offered to take me in as a roomate in their house, so I accepted. After all, what is $100 of rent compared to the $400 that I paid?

I ended up going with my girlfiriend to frat parties and continued to drink, smoke, and enjoy the young life. All of a sudden, my girlfriend's mother got a stroke and she decided that she had to move back to san antonio to take care of her mother. This was hard on her because she had to literally clean her own non-aged mother after she made a bowel movement as her mom was disabled after the stroke.


The time away got agonizing, b/c I wasn't able to visit due to my car having a broken transmission that needed fixing before I could drive 300 miles to see her. After a few months she came up and visited me instead. I really wanted her to spend the night on the only weekend that I would be able to see her for a long-time, so I snuck her into my room, past posters of jesus with arms eternally outstretched and cricifixes so that we could get some lovin while the pastor was away with the missionaries. The guy across the hall was the kind of person that would tattle on others, so I had to be very quiet in moving her. What was a good boyfriend to do, but cheer up somebody that has obviously needed the uh, backing?

I ended up having a great night .... and after spending some time with my girlfriend, we went to a friend's house and finished the bottle of jack daniels.

This event was no small thing. By deciding to put other priorities above religious ones, I was mentally breaking away from the group. I even started a bad habit that I still to this day, tend to engage in. I beleive that ethics is a lot more than an emphasis on what you drink or smoke. I think that these concerns are immaterial, unless you are driving or are otherwise responsible for others. I really dislike christians that try to moralize their standards, whom the rest of the world disavows for the most part, and attempts to label my choices as wrong. So, I brought the matter of my alchohol consumption up and its incorporation into a good decent life. These days, I realize that one should just try to avoid arguments about this, even though you may disagree and that I can always avoid company with those not having a positive opinion of different perspectives or taste in beverages.

My pastor didn't see it this way. He even saw me with a book on philosophy of religion, and warned me not to beleive anything in it and that I shouldn't take any more science course because they would turn me away from god.

First of all, learning philosophy seems to make me change my mind about things a small number of times, perhaps 5% of the time that I would investigate any new issue or branch of philosophy. What philosophy will do, which I explained, is that you will know WHY you beleive something and will be able to explain it more cogently. Similarly, this admonition against science disturbed me, because anybody confident in their faith should have no fears when encountering a dissenting opinion. So, these things made a big difference in decreasing my faith.

The group decided to do something incredibly asinine. They put up signs showing other religions as represented by columns of a building as crumbling, but christianity miraculously because of superior concrete apparantly, stayed whole. They also put up a 30 foot wide sign saying "GOD OWNS THIS CAMPUS" which sparked a battle with the local pagan group who put chalk pentagrams all over the walkways. Three weeks later, with this religious squabble still going on, with crosses, insults and pentagrams everywhere, I decided to leave this group.

I just packed up and moved in with my frat buddies, who didn't care what or if I drank, but were concerned with the more substantial areas of my life.
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#2 ozheenmaruf

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:15 PM

religion always ends up in war or fight or something like that... the world would be better without religion imo.. i mean there is NO evidence that there is a god.....
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#3 blane625

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:22 PM

I believe that religion is the main cause of most international conflicts today. However, the non-extremist sects of religion DO preach a good message: do unto others what you would want them to do to you. aka: the golden rule. I don't think religion should be outlawed, but more should be done to educate the people of today on the history of religion and what it is that the different sects truly believe in. (Outlawing religion was one thing communist nations did, and we all know how well communist nations work...)

As far as the existence of God, or a god, it is true that this cannot be proven. However, God's existence cannot be DISproven either. Philosophy really is very interesting when you get into it. I would encourage everyone to pick up a book or two on it and see how cool it can be for yourself.
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#4 diniMuater

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:24 PM

i mean there is NO evidence that there is a god.....


but there is no evidence for the opposite either.


i personally see christianity or generally religion as a way to handle social life 2000 years back.
like no sex before mariage, was a wonderful thing, no bastards, no sexual deseases ....
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#5 ozheenmaruf

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:32 PM

yeaa... i know that there is no evidence that he doesnt exsist... but i dont know what to believe.. one part of me believes in a "creator" but the other parts beleves in stuff like the big bang . which is also a pretty unproven theory..
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#6 KoenigFrederik

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:33 PM

Let everyone believe in things and persons he wants to as long as he doesnt hurt others. I dont care about religion.
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#7 LivinG_NuisancE

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:33 PM

2007-06-05 21:15:26, YinLonG wrote:
i mean there is NO evidence that there is a god.....


Well, there are no evidence proving that there isn't a god either, so your argument here seems kinda flawed. However, I disagree when you say that the world would be better off without religion. The core thoughts behind all major religions are , to myself, morally and ethically appealing. Rules like "act towards others as you would like them to act on you" are in my humble opinion extremely good as rules of conduct, and if everyone would follow these, the world would be a much happier place.

Still, I would not blame religion for war, I mean, extremists are only using religion as a tool to express their own feelings of anger/hate/wathever towards other contries/religions/political groups. The probability is high that they would conduct their acts of terrorism in one way or another, with or without religion, since it is only a "tool" , something they use to, in their eyes, justify their acts of destruction. I think that these acts would be conducted anyway, since the individuals conducting them would find other ways to justify their actions.

I hope I am making some sense. And we will only find out for certain if god exists after we are dead, so there is not really any point in discussing that; every person has to make up their own mind. Anyways, interesting post!
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#8 NrG.StorM

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:39 PM

i just think religion is for people who dont have a grasp on real life...now i no way hate against any religion or anything of the sort..i myself am not religious but do believe that there has to be something out there...
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#9 diniMuater

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:42 PM

i h8 how religion in its bad way is reduce to extremists abusing religion as a tool and such speechs.

many jobs are found through religion shizzle (dunno how to say it in english)
you always got a lowered chance if you do not belong to something like that. i have observed so much shit caused from religion (or their believers) and they werent extremists (or wouldnt be considered extremists compared to the terrorists bombing trains and such).
so plz dont say that only extremists are abusing religion.
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#10 Wibang

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 08:42 PM

ppl need something to beliv on, so they have something to go on for..
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