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Forums \ DotA strategic forum \ A Look at the Rock Paper Scissors of -CM
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ninjaa
A Look at the Rock Paper Scissors of -CM (15158 reads, 35 replies, 2 years ago)
OK guys I got really bored at home so I decided to make a thread about picking in CM. This thread specifically discusses the "rock paper scissors" nature of the picking phase but feel free to discuss other things that are related to picking. Anyways, what is it that you need in a team to win a game anyway?

There are 3 main strategies that a team can use to win a game. Those are the turtling strategy, the pushing strategy, and the ganking strategy. The turtling strategy is basically choosing a hero that has the potential to be unstoppable and nurturing him all game until he does become unstoppable, then pushing for the win. The pushing strategy involves getting heroes skilled at pushing (Pugna, Chen, Syllabear, etc) and raxing lanes asap. The ganking strategy is used to shut down enemy heroes while at the same time getting strong in order to be at a higher level than your opponents to win.

Of course no team strictly sticks to just one of those strategies all game. However, almost all the teams that I've seen specialize in at least one of the strategies. Let's assume a team specializing in ganking (team A) is facing a team that specializes in turtling (team B). Right off the bat the ganking team is at a disadvantage. Team B's plan would be to keep the towers up as long as possible and to keep their carry's income at a high level. When a ganking team approaches the enemy carry hero to gank him, a good turtle team will send in thier support to help him out and most of the time reverse the situation and own the gankers. A good turtling team would have wards set up that protect thier carry hero, making it extremely difficult to attack. Not only that, but this entire uphill battle that the gankers face can end as soon as the turtling team wins even just one important team battle!

The turtling strat does have a weakness though, and that's a pushing strat. These days turtlers usually go with 2 carry heroes, or perhaps even as many as 3. With a team that is entirely focused on pushing is pushing mid, you need at least 3 heroes usually to stop them. When half of your team are carry heroes however, you would need usually 4. Carry heroes without money can't do much against an army of summons and aoe spells coming at them left and right. By forcing the vulnerable carry heroes to the front line prematurely, pushing teams can create a big advantage by preventing their farm. If instead the carry heroes decide to stick in their lanes and try to farm, a good pushing strategy will have knocked down the mid raxes early. Of course this creates a HUGE advantage for the pushing team, as now pushing other lanes will be easier with the constant pressure coming from mid. Recently Icefrog gave pushing strategies huge buffs with the TP scroll nerf and the reduced exp/gold from big creeps.

Pushing strats have a huge weakness though, and that's against a ganking strat. When you are trying to push a lane you would usually spend your mana trying to knock down the tower, either by using aoe spells to knock down creeps or creating your own. This leaves you vulnerable, and basically just makes you a super creep with a brain. A good ganking team will get you disabled and dead in a few seconds if you are ou tin the open next to their tower. When your team groups up to try and push they can own your team fast just by having a couple of AOE stunners.

In other words, pushing strats > turtling strats, turtling strats > ganking strats, ganking strats > pushing strats, assuming both teams are even. Keep this in mind the next time you are picking a team in a CM game. You will probably be surprised at how much easier the game is after picking a correct counter strategy against your opponent. Of course in game it is a lot different, because the flexibility of the heroes lets your team have multiple strategies, all with the same hero! And of course sometimes it becomes turtle vs turtle, gank vs gank, rarely push vs push and etc so you have to be adaptive. It is good to practice all three strategies, because as the versions come and go each strategy will become better or worse depending on the conditions of the game. Example of that would be 6.64* (thx Savibo), where turtling ruled the day thanks to the easy carry hero saves possible by the multiple tp ability. Right now the game is pointing more and more towards a pushing strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if the next new heroes are good pushers.
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#1
inphinity_
holy
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2 years ago
#2
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Garuda
Man u pro! U the TRUTH!!
To be a rock and not to roll
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2 years ago
#3
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SaViBo
Nice read, very interesting perspective.



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2 years ago
#4
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37927
haha, nice.

Interesting article for both the newcomers and the experienced players.
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2 years ago
#5
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YoSnail
Pretty awesome, man.
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2 years ago
#6
J0EY
Awesome man and
Please donate me some internets.
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2 years ago
#7
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3jays
I think most dota games have evolved into something more than the vague classification of push/gank/turtle or rock/paper/scissors strats with so many more important aspects and variables that is considered in a strat

For example,
bans made
predicting your opponent's lanes
using ur wards for runecontrol/defensive/offensive/dewarding/preventing creep spawns/combination etc

and those are just 3 important decisions non competitive players like me would consider before the creeps even come out

I hate to be one of those people who over complicate dota, but i just think theres so much more that just rock paper scissors in dota these days
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2 years ago
#8
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maharot.ph
great post dude! keep them coming! i'm just a mid lvl player. need all the advice i can get. :)
Is your brain on cooldown??
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2 years ago
#9
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ninjaa
#7 what you say is true and I completely agree that there is more to this game than just push/gank/turtle but this is the basics. You need to be doing one of the three things in order to win, but that doesn't stop you from doing more than one of the strategies at a time. You can always pick someone like Tide, who can do both gank and turtle very well. However overall macro strategy must be looked at if you are a captian picking for your team. If your team always runs the same gank strat sooner or later the people you play are going to find a way to counter your strategies. Especially with so many new strategies and heroes becoming viable being able to adapt to all three styles is more important than ever.
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#10
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Zeyall
I really loved your article. very well written and you have some valid points
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2 years ago
#11
dts-
gj ninjaa
Everyday I have the blues
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2 years ago
#12
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P13
Well done.
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2 years ago
#13
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-Chupapy-
very well written...

i thought of those before...
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2 years ago
#14
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ChronoTrigger
Nice article! I'd add hybrid strategies to the table as well. But basically i agree with your rough breakdown into gank/turtle/push.
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#15
Sh1LLa
t-t-t-textwalled
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2 years ago
#16
ihkke
Nice text
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#17
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kikirikikostice
lol, thx captain obvious
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2 years ago
#18
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flizzardo
nob man best tactic pushing ganking turtleking

RK bkb assault heart mom dagger burtize
pugna linken hex bot shiva scepter
rhasta hex dagger bot scepter refresher bkb
potem buterfly panda bkb bot mkb etc etc
furion hex wtever wtever wtever...

mandy more hero can like dis is most imba taktic now.
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2 years ago
#19
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YoSnail
Well, I though the great value of this piece was not its astoundingly new discoveries, which it never purported to offer. Rather, it considered in a very clear and concise way the basic conflicts when it comes to game strategy these days. Often rethinking basic issues and the fundamentals is more valuable than attempting something super advanced and nuanced.
This post was edited by its author @ 2 years ago
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2 years ago
#20
Coprozor
lot of "turtling" strategie are made with push heroes...

early tower give free gold for carry, then some heroes like Pugna can counter push rly well also.


Anyway, -armor strat > all
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