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| Replays \ | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Intel Extreme Masters 2010 - Shanghai,  China
GameMode: -cm Length: 57:34 Minutes Chatlog | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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KongoTime
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| Comments \ Paging |
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1
| Thanks for tangoes deity = ) Simply cant give a team enigma.. no matter how well u can team fight you will always lose them. Lgd uses visage as a support perhaps thats the better way to use it. Anyway nice to see silencer again and wp deity. |
| wow nice played !!! |
| poor yaphets, dies with ageis, comes back alive and doesn't pop his mana shield til he's about 300 hp, then it's too late, might have turned the game around winning that team battle :( |
| mamamiya dominated yaphets actually, look at creep stats early game. even late game creep stats show the difference. a little classical chinese I would say. Turtling for nirvana late game. |
Wtf, Morph imba  |
| Primes> deity, deity> Nv.cn... i there for conclude that Prime> Nv.cn DOA will own them all,,,, LOL |
| #56 We can see Chinese teams >ALL in smm,hahaha |
| did anyone watch zhou? he missed like half of his creeps....even though storm was absent...lol. at some points he only autoattacked, he obviously was handicapped in some way (lag? but it's lan :/), cuz usually he gets all creeps.. also banana's first death -> lag? he just stand there and dies, both banana and zhou had rediculous lvl and cs... hm some rather stupid mistakes by storm, but nice morph :) |
| yaphets as a hard carry >,< fail |
| #41 xiaoluo was never the best in Deity,Crystal and specially Diqiuchaoren were always much more important,seems to me you don't really know what you're talking about #58 yea I noticed it too,that first-blood was extremly awkward. |
| hmm, maybe give up WR for Rexxar and put visage into he Trilane. later scouting enigma with blink and eleminating is key... didnt watch the rep though, but Pis BM is hawt! |
silencer +10  |
| 186 = best picker. |
| wtf is that fuckin picks. scourge outpicked obvious give my tang |
| Engima first pick. I wonder why :D The silencer + Lich combo is just deadly sick, Deity combination snacks off on CM/THD/Visage, making it nearly impossible for every team clash to end in Nirvana's favor. For those people who complain of Deity sucking badly, be reminded they actually beat top teams in China before heading off to the Asia scenes. I'm actually reminded of StarsBoba comments. This particular Chinese team pulled off a 3 pronged ultimate combo, Blackhole/Global silence/frost chain. Just that Deity is inconsistent at performance, lol. |
| this is LAN so no lag. zzz #58 and #60 or was I just got trolled |
| dusa versus enigma ;D |
| all int! |
| I think drow would've been a better LP than dusa. That way you get to put drow in the tri-lane, and let WR solo (which she is much better at than being in a tri-lane) Plus you get the silence, which is incredibly useful against storm, silencer & morph |
| Nice trilane by deity. |
omg Shuiguo imba carry  186 nice drafter  |
| #57 yep just like they did on ACG hahaha ohwait |
Doble Rampage shuiguo rly gj  |
is this 357 in deity same as the one who also plays in EHOME?jst asking  |
| wtf surprising.. |
| No , they are not same one . |
| deity cannot beat international teams, but they sure can beat their own chinese teams haha |
#77 +1.. remind me about ACG..  really easy qualified into grand final ACG chinese but really hard qualified.. and kick from the groupstage ACG '10 ..compared ehome... like 180 degree... ehome really hard qualified ESWC @chinese but raped easy international team  |
| #6 Agreed. Yaphets is such good at playing active carry heroes. |
| #60 no one thinks either of those players are top players along the same lines as YaphetS, Zhou, Burning, YYF, etc. Xiaoluo can at least claim to be a top carry. Deity is a second-tier team because they do not put in the effort to research their opponents and to mitigate the effects of uncertainty. This is why they're strong against Chinese teams, because they're familiar with them. Against international teams that play a different style, Deity fails because they do not prepare for those styles, as other top Chinese teams do. When SB emerged from its hiatus to compete in the ACG, it spent two months preparing specifically to face top Asian teams. SB team captain Soso expressed that he and his team watched top Asian (and especially Chinese) replays for the better part of a month to understand how they play and how to counter them. By contrast, what did Deity do for the ACG? According to its manager, as well as the captains of other Chinese teams (ie 820, 2009, Insence), Deity went in expecting to win, without even really researching their opponents. Half of its players practiced in the morning and the other half practiced at night. No attempt was made to analyze SB or AlienwareDG, or even the tournament rules. Until this changes, Deity will never become a tip top team, in my opinion. |
| I like how the guys from America are making assumptions out of their... based on 1 tournament where the players had to play without warkeys and on 14 inch monitors. The flame against Deity after they failed at this tournament is because Chinese are very patriotic. Are you serious about that? Didnt you forget how Deity raped nirvana.my with Mushi at NGF and basically every top Chinese team back then. They are not second rate team in China. They are among the best and top 4 with easy. At least 3 of their players were 2nd and 3rd in SMM the previous year. So much about your knowledge... oh w8 I forgot in USA you do assumptions based on popularity. Chrystal (357) is among the best gangers and semi carriers in China on par with 2009 and longdd and according to me the best Storm player in the entire world. If I remember corect he even played support in CH back in the days. |
| #81 so a person from Bulgaria is more qualified to talk about Chinese DoTA, riiightt. For your information, Deity in NGF was with Xiaoluo, and against mostly Chinese teams. In fact, the only team Deity beat in the NGF that wasn't a Chinese team was Nirvana.my. Since then, they haven't performed well in a single international tournament. In SMM, Deity didn't even exist. As some Chinese posters have said, Deity is an amalgamation of people who left or were kicked out of the old CH and CD. They were members of top teams but never the driving forces behind them. CD also produced people like Zhou and Insence, who now lead Nirvana.cn. CH was known for Longdd, who is still trying to reorganize it. Those guys get a lot more attention and justifiably so. Deity can become a top-tier team, but not with their current attitude of ignoring international competition and focusing solely on beating other Chinese teams, and whining about warkeys because they didn't research the tournament beforehand. |
| #80,81 and 82 is trying to make an article -.- |
| Simply- Early game advantages well converted into a lategame win! Sents tri-lane beat scourge tri-lane hands down at bot & that Morph never looked back from there. The 3 scourge heroes from bot just couldnt match farm n level with others whole game. WP sents! |
| Can someone please explain what happened early in this match? Banana stops controlling his hero all of the sudden, dies because of this, then a pause + save. What happened? Was this an issue throughout for both teams or what? |
| #81 So someone from North America doesn't get to state their opinions but YOU get to decide who the best storm is? In the words of Gordan Ramsay "Do me a favor and f*ck off". |
| btw, 38 minute mark: sent: 545 creeps, 151 neutrals (storm 227, morph 211) scourge: 479 creeps, 101 neutrals (262 medusa) |
| #86 u are free to state your oppinion I just noted that the assumptions most of you guys are doing are based on popularity and trents without really following what is going on at the scene. In fact Deity is as much successful as ehome, nirvana.cn and sgty. They got exactly the same strong players and exactly the same win-rate and exactly the same numbers championships in China as these 3 teams. In fact the recent trent is deity>nirvana.cn>sgty>ehome> deity based on observation from the last matches. So saying Deity is a second rate team after they have been very succesful lately based just on a fucked up tournament is not correct according to me. Adding to this that Deity is a team of weaker players than Yaphets, zsmj, zhou and stars like them based on what you know from gosu and the gosu trents is also wrong. Saying ToT is a 2nd class team because of its players might be a correct assumption because the only famous and star player they got there is ksssss, but saying this about Deity that has players that has proved themselves on the international scene and in China ... big NO. I would actually recommend watching Deity replays because I think currently they are the most creative team in China and got a teamplay on which even Ehome and sgty will be jelous about. I feel them exactly as I felt nirvana.cn few months ago when everyone was crazy about CH, sgty and ehome. |
Anyway this game was awesome, go RR it asap. Perfect setup / play by Deity |
| People can claim Deity to be second tier all they want, this replay clearly defies it..excellent teamplay, farm, strategy against an excellent team. |
| Some of the reasons why Deity won this game. 1. Yaphets died with the money that he can buy early Linken Sphere, sure costs Nv.Cn the game. 2. Silencer is a win pick for Deity. 3. Lich sneakily solo killed Yaphets in forest is beautiful, delaying Nv.Cn to farm. 4. Enigma with Bkb = you can't do shit without BM or VS. 5. Nicely farm by Morph, did his job smoothly. 6. Windrunner was a pretty useless pick here, rather go Drow. 7. Team fights were pretty much even, but Nv.CN does not have enough DPS, only Yaphets. Windrunner couldn't do anything ='/ |
| lack of star players dne second-tier team. deity flopped on one international event, but that was their only international event. sure you can make your argument sound stronger by saying they failed 'all' of them, but anyone who knows the scene knows it's just one and you're just twisting words. deity has strong players. a good team is better than a team full of star players that does not work together. in fact, i'd argue that most of these players are better than longdd or yaphets, who underperform most of the time yet are heralded as gods. i'm not saying their bad, but if you're going to call deity bad you're going to have to call a lot of other things bad as well deity is up there with nv.cn, ehome and lgd. they won ngf. they won acg china. they just advanced through a group with lgd/nv.cn, and it was never a question whether deity would advance or not but the other two. they may not have the best individual skill, but they have strong teamwork and a good eye on the metagame. recap: they were the first team to start using wd and pulled off that level 1 roshan surprise strat. games since then, i've seen enemy teams start rushing to check roshan whenever they see lich or wd or bm/enigma. then they started using weaver when she still had silence bugs to great effect. their draft here is great as well - not picking hyped up or overrated heroes too early. look at nv.cn copy lgd's heroes: visage fp (when he debatably not fp material), thd/wr sp (?? and they don't even use wr properly) whereas deity has strong knowledge of the game, knowing that if the 4 main supports are banned or picked (vs-cm-wd-lion) there are still other options besides thd |
| nice morph, but i think combat by nv is not good as deity :-s |
| i mean if they can beat top chinese teams that automatically makes them a top tier chinese team its just the obvious meaning of the word lol!! and ye they only failed one international tourney.. so who knows what happens in the future if they keep beating top chinese teams |
| #92 they failed in MYM Pride as well. In terms of individual skills, I haven't seen any exceptional players from Deity. Yes, they are good, but they are not amazing. Longdd and YaphetS "underperform" precisely because expectations are so high. People EXPECT them to dominate the game, and when they don't, that's considered "underperforming." This is the mark of a great player - when people hold you to such standards. By contrast, Deity's players are all solid, but they lack that extra virtuosity that makes a good player into a great one. When YaphetS plays SF, or when Zsmj plays Medusa, or when Yyf plays Wind Runner, you can see that spark of genius, that aura of absolute confidence, that can only be described as "art." And that art is what separates them from the other players. It's what makes them so worthwhile to watch. That's not to say only the Chinese have virtuosos. There are many non-Chinese players with the same reputation, for the same reason. That Deity lacks this reputation for its players, implies that they have not yet achieved this level of play. As for strong understanding of the game, I'll give Deity the benefit of having a very strong understanding of the Chinese scene. But when it comes to the international scene I feel that they are behind. Their picks in the ACG were underwhelming: carries first? Farm-centric strat every game? It's obvious they didn't realize how SB and AlienwareDG played, and why teams like LGD pick supports first. And their performance against Prime in MYM Pride, that demonstrated no understanding whatsoever of Prime's game. It was just the classic Chinese picks they saw LGD and Ehome pull off, and Prime punished them for it. Deity may have the potential to be a great team, but as of this moment their players have yet to show the "art" of other stars, and strategically they are too specialized for the Chinese scene. |
| 357 in every team?? wasnt he in ehome a while ago? |
| your first argument is bullshitting. basically you justify underperforming on bad logic prime/rgc are not international tournies, they are 'online' tournies. there is often no pressure and no motivation (regardless of lag). these guys have tournies with big money year round where they know who their competition is. why waste time training against shadier and weaker opponents when the odds are unlikely anyways? do you think maybe sgty's inability to take home a championship is because of their divided attention? deity sucked in acg. they sucked in the abovementioned tournies. i cannot deny you that. however, i think winning 5 games in a row against the best teams in the world (acg qualis). or going on a straight run in ngf when they were newly formed, and now going three-way-tie with nv.cn-lgd who are probably stronger than ehome as of this moment, means more than online tournies and flopping. in fact, they are imo the most 'explosive' or 'surprising' team (moreso than tot, who defeats ehome and lgd randomly). infact, the reason they lose you stated themselves - they come underprepared and overconfident. that doesn't make you worse. even if you are better, if you have to play against a completely new and seemingly 'random' style of play, you will be caught off guard and will lose. if they didn't do their research, then they lose. simple as that - that doesn't make them a second-tier team, that means they have to do their research. look at what happened in ehome-teg, they didn't know how teg played, that was their weakest performance because it was the first time they were exposed to euro playstyle examples: aeon vs bg dirge push strat. alienware vs deity random push strat. stuff mentioned in my last post. starsboba healing strat. if the opponent hasn't practiced enough against your strat, you have a big advantage ps do you even play this game? pgg has this so called 'art' you seem to describe, that doesn't make him a good player. i think he's the #1 most overrated player of all time. basically you're saying reputation makes a player good. i also don't appreciate walls of text if there's no understanding behind them edit: also they broke into gleague 1 finals |
| China>Europe>All>CNB |
| #97 let's think about the logic behind reputation for a moment. When YaphetS doesn't go 15-0 or some absurd dominance in mid, he is considered to have "underperformed." When Sansheng or Crystal doesn't get 15-0, who gets on their case? Also, reputation reflects past performance. It means something. As for your other arguments, there are several basic fallacies in them: 1. "Online is not serious DoTA" - online is actually a very important part of serious DoTA as it's how most people experience the game. A team cannot be considered top-tier if it fails to perform online, as many if not most international tourneys have online qualifiers, and if you don't get past the qualifiers, guess what, you don't even get a chance at the championship. Btw, RGC has a prize money of $30,000. That's alot more than most of the LAN tourneys in China. 2. "Not being prepared doesn't mean second-tier" - in DoTA, being prepared is half the battle. With the importance of picks/bans and team tactics, there's no excuse for not being prepared. Why do people like DC, 2009, and Maelk get so much respect? Because they know how to prepare a game. A team without star players can still win with good picks, but a team without good picks will lose against even weaker teams. Deity is able to win in Chinese DoTA because it understands the scene. That it then fails in international tournaments reveals a fundamental weakness that sets Deity apart from other top Chinese teams. 3. "Deity has great achievements in China, therefore they must be considered a first-tier team." In China, all the top teams can defeat each other. But in the international scene, only Ehome, LGD, and Nirvana.cn have shown great performance (Nirvana.cn less so than the other two; in fact with the recent MAJOR roster change I'd say that Nirvana.cn is as untested as Deity). You keep bringing up NGF, but in NGF Deity faced all of one non-Chinese team. Compare that to Ehome in ESWC, or SB in the ACG and ADC. Until they can prove themselves in international tourneys again, Deity will remain a second-tier team in my eyes. Think about this for a moment. You won't call a team first-tier just because it wins in Europe. So why would you call it for China - just because Chinese DoTA is considered the best right now? I don't think so. It's not Chinese DoTA that's the best, but the Chinese teams that have PROVEN themselves internationally. P.S. Let off on the condescending attitude. You have no basis for arrogance. |
| This debate is going out of the replay topic, but: 1. Online especially online matches betwen EU and Asia cant be ment as a serious DoTA due to lag issues. I am quete sure the winner of the pride and razor will be determined by who is the host in the games. 2. I am quete sure Deity were very prepared for ADC in terms of strategy, but they never prepared to play on 14 inches monitors without warkeys. I ve watched the Deity games from ADC and compared them to this game with nirvana.cn. Deity look like a pub team at ADC and they look like one of the best teams in the world in this replay. Why do u think there is such a difference? I am sure it is not because they were not prepared for ADC strategically. I will ask you to watch these 3 games (Deity vs sb, deity vs alienware and deity vs nirvana.cn) again and come up with a conclusion. 3. W8 w8... what did Nirvana.cn do more than Deity on the international scene? cD had players from Deity too. Ehome underperformed on the previous year SMM too. So by your logic Ehome have been a second tier team the previous year. Your entire statement is messed up, dude. So lets make a fast recap of who won what in China. Ehome won a Chinese tournament right after SMM, ESWC qualifications and the ESWC in Paris; Deity won NGF and ADC qualifications, sgty won smm, u9 and 2 times g league; Nirvana.cn won recently a tournament (I forgot the name of the tournament). So according to the accomplishments: 1.sgty;2.ehome;3.deity;4.nirvana.cn that is both in China and worldwide. Correct me if I am wrong. |
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