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Is the current game mode outdated? Article by Drayich
Is the current game mode outdated? Article by Drayich
Time to let APXL go?
I remember when AP was used as the mainmode of DotA. The picks where somewhat the same, even if T_T did do some different things with their globalstrat. Then someone came up with the idea of APXL, the mode where you are allowed to ban enemy heroes, and this was a huge sucess. From that moment its pretty much downwards. We see the same heroes getting banned over and over again, with some variations naturally, but overall i think the most heroes are the same. Then someone added another ban (just as the game was getting more interesting, now your able to remove one more hero).
The pickingphase of an highlevel APXL game is really interesting for some people, and really tiredsome for others. I guess we are 'wasting' atleast 30minutes each game just for the picks - this isnt making the game attractive for me as a familyman - for the spectators - and for the players. It simply takes too much time. A bo3 game makes 3x30minutes picks, thats 1h30minutes ONLY FOR CHOOSING HEROES! And on top of that finding valid hosts and starting up the game and a complete evening is gone just for one bo3 game.
I remember when someone had the idea to make a -RD (Randomdraft) tornament. And everyone was afraid that this would lead to games getting imbalanced with rigged pools and so on. I'd agree that the balance would be different in a RD game compared to a APXL game, but it wouldnt be much if you were allowed to ban one hero per team, and then having the picks done live in the game, natuarlly without any pauses, would even if there is a "rigged" pool make it much more harder to find the PERFECT combination, and it would also make the games a hell lot more interesting.
My idea would be like this
- Start the game, enter -RD and pause the game.
- Countdown 5 minutes, for both teams to make agreement on what hero they wanna ban, but also having some kinda recap for what heroes to pick
_ When 5minutes passed, captains of both teams enter their ban in allchat. This should be entered at the same time (meaning also the same hero could be banned)
- Start the picks, no pauses, just pick as its your turn and five minutes later the game is going.
So what about the 'rigged pools'?
If you pause a RD game instantly you wont from start know whos getting the firstpick, hence the pool is less rigged. You simply remove the hero that you belive make the pool rigged or the hero that you dont wanna risk having to give away
And remember due to the lack of time you will have more issues thinking what lines they will run, are they going with a hero in forest? Is Warlock laning or is he solo? And with the swapping before gamestart you will soon realise that this game will be much more about playing then about picking - even if you also can fail miserably in RD.
This could make people see the game less strategic, in one way maybe you have less chance using your overpowered mindgame, however now its a bigger chance that you can create brilliant solutions that your enemy never can forsee, and i belive that this would make the game a hole lot more interesting.
And if you compare RD to a APXL pool the difference isnt so big as you might think. APXL is about getting the best hero as firstpick, the two secondbest as secondpick and the two best after that etc. Thats the same thing with -RD1ban, just that it takes less time.
So why still 1 ban?
Simply since it might make the pools less rigged. If there is a broodmother a omniknight a visage or something like that standing completely out as 'carryer' or 'ganger' or 'warder' the balance of the game is easily obtained with banning that hero if you want to. And if you are playing against a better team you might even screw the ban just to get a shot at having a stronger lineup then your enemy.
We've for sucha long time seen picks determine games even in APXL. We give the teams playing 90minutes for a BO3 to proove their pickworthyness. What about giving the teams 10minutes, and i bet you all that the level of "skill" will be equal overtime, we just waste less time and we win more playtime. And we get to see some more different heroes. This will also definently make the game much more attractive for leagues and tornaments. Think about it!
I remember when AP was used as the mainmode of DotA. The picks where somewhat the same, even if T_T did do some different things with their globalstrat. Then someone came up with the idea of APXL, the mode where you are allowed to ban enemy heroes, and this was a huge sucess. From that moment its pretty much downwards. We see the same heroes getting banned over and over again, with some variations naturally, but overall i think the most heroes are the same. Then someone added another ban (just as the game was getting more interesting, now your able to remove one more hero).
The pickingphase of an highlevel APXL game is really interesting for some people, and really tiredsome for others. I guess we are 'wasting' atleast 30minutes each game just for the picks - this isnt making the game attractive for me as a familyman - for the spectators - and for the players. It simply takes too much time. A bo3 game makes 3x30minutes picks, thats 1h30minutes ONLY FOR CHOOSING HEROES! And on top of that finding valid hosts and starting up the game and a complete evening is gone just for one bo3 game.
I remember when someone had the idea to make a -RD (Randomdraft) tornament. And everyone was afraid that this would lead to games getting imbalanced with rigged pools and so on. I'd agree that the balance would be different in a RD game compared to a APXL game, but it wouldnt be much if you were allowed to ban one hero per team, and then having the picks done live in the game, natuarlly without any pauses, would even if there is a "rigged" pool make it much more harder to find the PERFECT combination, and it would also make the games a hell lot more interesting.
My idea would be like this
- Start the game, enter -RD and pause the game.
- Countdown 5 minutes, for both teams to make agreement on what hero they wanna ban, but also having some kinda recap for what heroes to pick
_ When 5minutes passed, captains of both teams enter their ban in allchat. This should be entered at the same time (meaning also the same hero could be banned)
- Start the picks, no pauses, just pick as its your turn and five minutes later the game is going.
So what about the 'rigged pools'?
If you pause a RD game instantly you wont from start know whos getting the firstpick, hence the pool is less rigged. You simply remove the hero that you belive make the pool rigged or the hero that you dont wanna risk having to give away
And remember due to the lack of time you will have more issues thinking what lines they will run, are they going with a hero in forest? Is Warlock laning or is he solo? And with the swapping before gamestart you will soon realise that this game will be much more about playing then about picking - even if you also can fail miserably in RD.
This could make people see the game less strategic, in one way maybe you have less chance using your overpowered mindgame, however now its a bigger chance that you can create brilliant solutions that your enemy never can forsee, and i belive that this would make the game a hole lot more interesting.
And if you compare RD to a APXL pool the difference isnt so big as you might think. APXL is about getting the best hero as firstpick, the two secondbest as secondpick and the two best after that etc. Thats the same thing with -RD1ban, just that it takes less time.
So why still 1 ban?
Simply since it might make the pools less rigged. If there is a broodmother a omniknight a visage or something like that standing completely out as 'carryer' or 'ganger' or 'warder' the balance of the game is easily obtained with banning that hero if you want to. And if you are playing against a better team you might even screw the ban just to get a shot at having a stronger lineup then your enemy.
We've for sucha long time seen picks determine games even in APXL. We give the teams playing 90minutes for a BO3 to proove their pickworthyness. What about giving the teams 10minutes, and i bet you all that the level of "skill" will be equal overtime, we just waste less time and we win more playtime. And we get to see some more different heroes. This will also definently make the game much more attractive for leagues and tornaments. Think about it!
Information
| Posted by: | Calum "The_Ganksta" Gittins | |
| Date: | 9 months ago | |
| Comments: |
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| Comments \ Paging |
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| That man is right! Drafting takes ages and i'd love to see some more exotic heroes. |
| Nice article ,could be tryed out, but I still like apxl ) |
| need more (read: all) heroes to be better balanced then, else a nice idea if you think about it |
| totally agree |
| nice idea!!! |
| I agree, its getting boring seeing the same heroes being used over and over and over and over and over.. |
| Death match as standart mode - high benifit from ganking - shorter games ! |
| @7 Dm games are the worst in length i think ;( And so laggy! |
| I tend to disagree to that idea, although could be tested. In my opinion games should be played in bo1 mode and only bo3 in finals (Not even that though) because that would make teams think overall what they pick and you won't waste 1 1/2 hours to pick heros. Since DotA is a long game, it's quite hilarious to play 2 even 3 games against one opponent, and not to mention the bo5 (rofl) on the Pride tourny. |
| As a spectator (only playing public), the game would be MUCH more attractive with different heroes and NOT the WASTE OF TIME. I mean seriously, a lot of people didn't feel like staying in the DreamArena (the stage at DreamHack) just because it was tiresome to wait for the teams to pick much similar heroes again. I'd say go with -ar ;D |
| You are not telling me why you are disagreeing with the idea @ 9 |
| Ok didnt know that. never actually played dm for real. Nice idea though |
| Scrims and strat become useless tho, but i would like to see that |
| First of all, RD is a mode you'd never want to play in any offline tournaments when it's about money and fame. Same goes for Online tournaments, when money is involved you won't let the "Random" get in the way. Your concept is just like the usual "Draft" in the IHCS bot. You make the game dependent on the pool and not on the players. Well mostly the balance is lost by then i think. Sure, the captains need to think faster and invent new strats for each pool, but i don't think most of the captians want to be dependant on the random pool, rather on their skill to outpick the enemy captain, i don't say it ain't possible in RD, but where is the element of surprise if you already know the hero pool? Edit: besides, why do you want to change the whole concept? like i said earlier, have most games in bo1, thats it. One game should be enough to decide the victor in a match. But you would disagree to that i assume. |
| Nice article! Should be nice to see somewhere ! :D |
| I can see it from ur PoV, but i love apxl, and think that bo1 will do the time-trick just as much. |
| 14 You have 1 ban in this mode too, and the randomfactor as you are talking about is not as big as you think if you are allowed to ban one hero. Because this 1 hero makes the difference between firstpick and secondpick. I know exactly what you mean with IHCS and that picks determinates alot of games, because pools are rigged. But it can only be one hero that riggs the pool. If you remove the hero that really rigs the pool, then you are back at scratch again. And in all hounestly. Even in IHCS the picks doesnt decide whos winning, its the amount of stack instead. I rarely play IHCS anymore, and for me its nearly dead. But back in the old days teams won/lost regardless of picks. And you are taking a stand for the comeptetive scene already before asking them what they say - i mean they could all say no. But if we keep playing APXL like we do now, then we will have to keep playing DotA on Dreamhack and in ASUS, because there is not a big interest from the e-sports scene for a game that takes so horrible much time. And back to the subject. You will be surprised how "not rigged" the -RD pools are if you practice picking and playing it for a while with 1 ban allowed from each team. You will all of a sudden see that even if the fistpick is really good you can get hereos that makes up for it later on. And in APXL already some people say that the games are "over already after picks" so the difference would really just be that they had to wait 10mins instead of 40mins and say the same thing afterwards. |
| I don't think the bans are at all the same every game. In fact, every team has their different heroes that they do not wish to play against or aren't too good at using themselves. Which makes for different strategies in the actual pick phase. I don't think the picks are the same every game. In fact, it's quite obvious that most of the top teams has a style of their own. If you only showed me the bans and picks of some matches, without telling me the teams name, and then asked me to figure out which team is who, then I'm fairly sure I'd guess at least half of the correct. Especially if all of the matches were BO1 games. This is because with the current system, there is much more room for strategies. I do, however, agree with you on the actual picking taking way too long. This won't change with a new way of doing, it'd simply change with some actual limitations on time - Rules on how long teams have to pick. Why don't we just have Icefrog change the mode so that Blue and Pink picks all of the heroes for the team and then the players themselves mark off the hero they are supposed to play when the picking phase is over. Restraint it with X certain of seconds per pick like it already has and if the captain doesn't pick, then he gets a random hero. Too bad if you didn't pick, you've received a random penalty for your slow brain. |
| Maelk, thats what i mean. You can from the picks and ban tell what team it is. And the team who manages to get the ingame playstyle mostly used will win the game, and thats what i would like to remove, and instead say that the teams that are able to make usage of the heroes currently availible most will win the game. This would make the game more interesting, im sure! |
| The picks are obviously to long and don't tell me you came up with that just now :) A rule can change all that, simple and without discussion. If you scimmed with -RD mode drayich then i would like to see some replays, because according to you, i would be suprised about pools not being rigged, simply you suggest us to scrim with -RD mode and see how it is. But did you? If not, make a testmatch, mouz vs mym? I'm just curious, this is no offence. |
| xL > All |
| What is wrong with teams having their own playstyles, trademarks and strategies? For the first time in all of DotA we can finally say that teams has their own playstyles and doesn't just copy VP/SK/MYM, and then its a bad thing to you? In all other games and sports, each team is renowned for their individual playstyle or strategy. Be it Counter-Strike, American Football, Warcraft 3 or soccer. If you want to ruin balance for the sake of fun, then sure, go with -rd. If you want DotA to go onwards as a true e-sports worthy game, then continue with -xl but work around the time-issue and balance the map out. |
| 20, With the 1 BAN its no longer rigged. The picks are simple in any game 1 2 1 2 1 2 If there is 3 5 7 9 good heroes then the secondpicker always have the advantage If there is 1 4 6 8 then the firstpicker has the advantage. Simple. The one firstpicking will always get the best hero, and the one secondpicking will always get the two next best heroes. Thats the way a pool can be rigged, and that will happen regardless of what heroes there are in the pool. Now imagine that you can remove 1 hero from the pool (whatever hero you prefer) then you will soon see what happens with the pool, it gets really underrigged. BUT then again you can also choose whos picking first each time, (like we do now) and the riggedness is completely gone. You just remove whatever hero you think is too strong. |
| 22 i dont think the balance will be ruined as you think AND i think that playstyles can be used but just with other heroes, and it will make it more interesting for the crowd. And TBH Maelk i think DotA is really developing good, but with games looking as they do now it will never get really big, its simply too timeconsuming. And i know there are other games who look "simular every time" and still manage. But all these games have different maps played, even if the gameplay is the same. DotA needs something that makes the 3maps or the 60minutes differ abit from game to game, especially since we only have 1 map. |
| You didn't answer my question. I understand how your concept should work. I just think that it doesn't fit the competitive play. |
| i think so... |
| If teams actually used the -APXL format (as in the one coded into the game) instead of doing picks beforehand and then just running the game -AP there are already time limits on picks afaik. That accomplishes that element perfectly. To be totally honest imo the best way to bring dota more variety in strategy/picks (and I've thought about this, how it can be implemented etc.) would require a LOT OF WORK by people but is still doable: Separate the hero pool (for league games, not pubs, rd, etc.) into 3-5 distinct "races" or sets of heroes (i.e. instead of the old school -lm Sentinel heroes vs. Scourge heroes you would have Sentinel, Alliance, Scourge, etc. Obviously there would need to be some thought for flavor in order to make these possible). Each team (captain or w.e), before the game/at the beginning, selects a "race" (hero set) from which they will do their picks. At this point both teams are made aware of the other team's "race" and picks begin in the old -lm format (1-2-2-2-2-1) with first pick being randomly determined by the game engine. What this ultimately means is (if done successfully) you have a few different sets of heroes that can be assembled in unique ways to cater to different playstyles---each set would have its own unique strengths, weaknesses but they would all be 'balanced' (in the same way that WC3 or SC are balanced, at least relatively speaking, between races). And ofc if you wanted to add even more variety you expand the map so that instead of just one map (i.e. terrain set) you have a map pool (3-5 maps) with their own unique features/gameplay elements (maybe one map with a single lane, but easy neuts, so you can have a team choose to jungle multiple heroes or 5 man push the one lane early; maybe a map with the same general structure as DotA currently but smaller - still 3 lanes w/ jungle etc. but 1/2 the size for easier ganks between lanes and faster trips between fountain). These simple changes can result in drastically different strategies being effective. So I disagree that RD1ban is a better mode for comp play, because the time limit factor (being the only real indisputable "plus") is rendered moot if teams actually used the -apxl mode (with its built in time limits) and because I disagree that the same heroes are banned/picked every game -- it's just that many teams will imitate or cater to certain playstyles because they have seen them be effective and they can execute them personally. I do agree though that DotA could use some (read: MUCH) more variety! |
| I think the best way to do anything is to test it out. Theorizing will get you to a point but if you arent willing to test it out and say hey lets try this out in a few practice friendly matches of btwn some of the top teams (that are well respected thru out the community )such as mym sk mouz rushed ksint Teg whats the point. 1. Dray get your team together scrim a few of these teams in the mode/manner you believe will be good. (If none of these teams are willing to plz jus contact me and H2O would be glad to try it out. ) 2. take the games seriously dont screw around and waste each others time. 3. see where you see flaws in the idea or where we can improve upon it. 4. post the replays of the scrims to show other people how exciting you find these games and post your opinions. I know that this article was put out just today but chatting about it will lead to no where. if you post a scrim in your suggested mode or trying other suggestions as sentinel vs scourge, we can see how it went and if its changing the way we enjoy competitive dota. |
| there is apxl ingame mode, it just needs to be changed a bit, and it is 60or75sec per ban/pick without pauses that would do the job, dont like rd ;) |
| agree with baja... APXL in game with more time then it is now. If player wont pick anything he will get random hero. It is just about setting the pick time. and ofc also more time to exclude |
| i disagree with maelk in the point thats it sufficient and entertaining enough to chose out of heropool of 40 in picking and out of 20 concerning the bans. AND its no about the hero balance that the other about 40 heroes and not being used. Moreover picks/bans/lu dont create an own playstyle nowadays in dota. It doesnt really differ between the top teams of the same country. Its certain that there are differneces between asian, american, europe and if u want so russian pick/banning but if u compare that to other big esports titles like cs, wc3 its the same. In my opinion if u talk about the "own style" of dota teams u need to talk about the former VP. They invented something u call a teams own style by e.g going for early ganks, using tower diving, playing roaming heroes. Todays dota games are pretty much the same. No hand sign in it. At least teams are able to use pick/ban wisely enough to chose another strat than the 1-2 l8, babysitter, carry hero, the pushing strat which is used in about every 20th game. I wont say that drayichs solution is the way to make dota a big esports title or at least to change it a bit. BUT it defnitely grabbed the fact that the "how it works" at the moment has to be change. Of course not only gameMode but as Maelk mentioned 'map balance and time issue'. (second could be solved by changin things in the pick/ban method) |
| DotA is serious time consuming, everybody knows that, and even more when more when its -apxl 3/4 ban etc, and if its a BO3 dota match GG, the one with most stamina will win xD (kidding), but imo, the game should somehow get shortened. Also, the playstyle of the game should be more aggresive, nobody wants to see a guy farming for 5min and do nothin, simply: DotA is actually very boring to watch T_T, theres not enough action. Back when blinkdagger still was a method to escape, it was alot more fun, people dared to play aggresive, heroes on their opponents wood ganking and fighting |
| Go -LM again |
| Dota has become boring, maybe the bans arent the same every game but the picks are always (who has the most nuke heroes or late gamers etc.) its boring to watch 78 min game just to see the winner/most farmed hero. There are few heroes that are played every game and those are the only ones that they pick. FACE IT dota has become boring to play something needs to be done for the better sake of the players |
| Any pick mode kinda sucks. Do ARMM and have pure balance in terms of heros, and no time spent picking. Also you get to see any hero in action. Screw RD or LM, just go ARMM and play the game. |
| wont ggtv drop if you pause too long in the beginning? |
| Agree, dota is not very fun to watch these days. Its mostly farm and its pretty much the same heroes every game. |
| There are certain heroes that make it hard for a strategy to work, that's why there are bans. Bans get rid of heroes that are difficult to play against and possible strategies that involve certain key heroes. The RD idea would be interesting because it would finally encourage dota brains to explore new heroes. It would be very demanding on captains and players who decide the picking of heroes since it entails so much: laning ability/synergy/team fight ability/gank ability/physical dps/nuke power/pushing ability/push stopping ability/sufficient target stuns/non-reliance on ultimates/enough farm/tank ability. This is why it takes so long to pick heroes, because every captain usually goes through this check list: do we have late game presence? how about stuns for qop/potm? and so on - because anyone one of these factors can be the reason why you didn't win the game. -RD mode will not solve this, you will see for the most part... blowout games. Simply because the heroes in dota are extremely different from each other even though some abilities may work the same ie. slows/stuns, there is way too much to factor in and there will be huge room for error. There are 90+ heroes in dota. In competitive play, only about 30-40 of them are used, because they are deemed more efficient in their role than other heroes. It took me a really long time to get accustomed to 6.52e's gameplay, the new set of heroes that are useful took a while to learn to play and play against. Can you imagine RD, where there is a random pool of heroes.... it will be very difficult to decipher a team of 5 heroes and something I would not want to do in a final of a major tournament. I believe RD mode is a good mode to play, and we see really strong and interesting strategies being used in it all the time.. but not for competitive play. I like Maelk's idea of time limits, because we have seen that in tournaments already. It makes sense, and unfortunately teams like EG will suffer from this. I think there have been many instances where ONE hero's capabilities have single-handedly won games. Why should a team suffer if another team has a specific hero, and you're not allowed to pick him. I think I would like to see another team be able to pick the same hero. Many of my teams' losses have come not from skill differences, but from a motherfuckin tauren or omniknight. Yes two GA's would make a retarded team fight, but I would like to see two chens fighting each other, why would one team be able to capitalize on a first pick or a second third. I've seen it many times where ES or TIDE is banned, so the other team instantly rushes to pick the remainer. The main problem I have with competitive dota currently is not the time duration (even though it does take forever), it is the fact that so many games end up being decided on picks and not skill. As the dota community, let's explore how we can reduce that result and encourage skill-deciding games. I understand Icefrog is doing things to reduce map control in order to eliminate late game rice-fests, which is a start. To Drayich, I commend your courage to venture out and express your ideas that may differ from the community, you're doing your part papa dray. |
| just make a tournament - invite all the top teams and see how it works. the rest will follow |
| There's good points to both sides of the argument, on the one hand I look at ladder, where the strats for a long time were even more set in stone and you'd very rarely get suprised by something new at a pro level, yet its still very entertaining to watch (obviously game length has something to do with it). Strategies naturally evolve very slowly, and due to balance problems, it is not in the team's interest to give up certain heroes in order to experiment with different strats at least in major games. However, one can tell just by the number of replies a replay gets when people see a hero icon they don't recognize among the picks, (MYM picking Invoker, E-Home picking Rattletrap) that watching the same heroes in slightly different combinations is becoming a bit stale. Sometimes I find myself just looking at the picks, saying 'well this team obviously won' and will only watch the replay if my prediction was wrong. Which is indicative of what everyone already knows... that DotA is becoming more about picks than about actual play. When I heard the Dota Crew Showdown was going to use the -RD format, I was glad that finally they were shaking things up a bit (and doubly disappointed GG.net couldnt enter TT). Whether or not the games are exciting to watch on a skill level, you still get to see some really interesting line ups, and one can only imagine how the greatest picking minds DotA has to offer handle it =) To conclude, thanks Dray for speaking your mind and instigating this debate. Its a step towards perfecting the game we all love. EDIT: Oh and Kapz is right, enough theorycraft... let's see some serious scrimmage! |
| Drafting is part of the game just like warding/ganging etc is.Some teams lose their game just because they got out stratted or because they didnt counter pick well enough.I really dont think u should change how it is atm.Dota is fun to watch and play.It is does take long to finish a game and to draft but if u shorten that time people wont have the time to think the best hero for the situation.I love dota just how it is atm and i dont think you should take drafting away because u will take a part of competitive dota away |
| 37 +1 dota is really boring to watch. |
| well kinda agree, want to see some different heroes :1 ofc theres always little luck factory in when its RD.I disagree with banning system think bout it. theres Brood mother and DK in pool (only carries) then other team bans DK and other doesnot ban Brood, mostly it will be coin flip which team wins :a ofc it depends a lot other heroes too but its hard to overgank DK or Brood so well that they would be useless :D. so why don't u make it like @ #Dota.fi so the one who gets first pick will also ban first. |
| The thing that decides who wins and looses a certain match is the team that takes down the opponents barracks. Ussualy this happens late in a game where one team sucessfully ganks an enemy carry hero and then pushing a lane while he is dead, or decides to try a 5v5 push. When barrack has been taken down the creeps become stronger and having the strongest creeps is essential for winning a game. This means that games are decided in big 5v5 or 5v4 battles. What the dota community is asking for is a game where every kill matters for the overall pourpos of winning a game. Where a kill early game does something else other than hurting 1 hero so that he is weakened for the late game 5v5 battles. So, an idea would be that the kill/death ratio between sentinel and scourge decides the strenght of the creeps along with barrackes. So each time you kill your opponent you're own creeps grow a little stronger. maybe just damage wise so killing doesnt consume too much time, thus making it farm orientated.. This ofcourse doesnt help lenght of the picking but may be a solution for a shorter and more gank orientated game.. |
| picks nowadays seem more like chess. It's also a very important part of the game. Well, let's do it like chess and their timer - 1 minute for all bans, 4 minutes for all picks. This time is divided between teams, so if one picks fast, that does not mean the time goes for the second team. |
| totaly agree! nice idea! |
| "i think that playstyles can be used but just with other heroes, and it will make it more interesting for the crowd." # I dont know about the others here but i usually prefer replays which contain nonstandard heros... But #7 I also like the idea of dm games... U always have to think about when to pick which hero coz u cant pick it again. After a lost fight u can completly change ur strategy to counter the enemy lineup -> mass turnarounds U wont see tb or spec farming all game, but u will see mass ganking and strong lanes at the beginning, good aoe clashes midgame and no victimheros lategame.(I think^^) As drayich said, it wont make the games shorter but u will scip the drafting, so who cares if the games are longer. The boring part for the viewer was drafting u said^^ (mb u can even limit the pool if u want to make games shorter). You also dont have to worry about imba heros coz both teams can pick the same heros. I think it would be worth a try.. (when the lagissue is solved..) |
| 27: Great idea, at least if you refuse to care about the fact that it would probably require a lot of time and a lot of people programming on this and testing and balancing it. And I doubt that there are enough people who are willing to do this because they won't even get money for wasting lots of their free time. 44: I don't think you should make creeps stronger for kills, because then the creeps would always be near the enemy tower, which is more like a disadvantage in early game. What you could do though is lowering the bounty for creeps with every hero kill, so that the enemy teams gets 1 gold per creep less for every 2 heroes your team kills. Even though the exact amount of money would have to be determined by testing, this would obviously lead to more action because your farming advantage would get bigger with the number of kills you get, so that they in turn would need to gank you to get things even, etc. |
| Drayich 5 points! =) |
| I like the idea. Why? - with -rd as leaguemode you can't call yourself a "pro" if you can play 4 heroes in an adequate way. With -rd as leaguemode you should be able handling at least 20 heroes. - the "luck-factor" is imho no arguement against -rd. Since both teams have the same pool, and both teams have 1 ban. And seriously, outpicking isn't something new... (yeah I know, with -rd you can blame the "luck-factor" imbabbq) - it will show, who really understands DotA, and who is a real mastermind. Working out strategies in 5 min. with a limited pool of heroes, that is real mindwork. - Very intense and interesting games due to the limited number of heroes. - No 30 min pickphase! |
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