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Magic Stick: Aye or Nay?
Posted by Vincent "em0_llama" Nunes 2 years ago
Recently Drayich expressed his opinion on the Magic Stick and how it affects the current version. This is obviously a very controversial topic and it has invoked a number of different responses. 
Loda and Ducky in China
Along with the hundreds of fans that have ranted and raved about Magic Stick, two pro's, namely Loda and Ducky, have expressed their opinions in their own personal blogs. Those who have read Ducky's blog might think that the DDT player was "attacking" Dray, requesting that he "takes a pill and relax". He also went as far as to say that Dray's opinion on the current game is because of TheSHIT!'s inability to farm. One of the more constructive things expressed in Ducky's blog was the point that the Magic Stick is but one of many aspects in the modern game. Other aspects include team synergy, map movement and of course, farming; which is all completely true. He also argues that the Magic Stick increases the viability of many heroes, which has resulted in a more interesting pick phase.
Even though currently in the "land of bratwurst and beer", Loda found the time to blog about this particular matter and express his opinion. He partially agrees with Dray's idea regarding the shorting of cooldowns, but it would have to be closely monitored, as it could completely and utterly change the game. In sync with his fellow teammate, Loda disagrees with Dray's opinion on Magic Stick. According to Loda, magic makes the game a great deal more exciting and the correct use of it can make team fights plenty more skilful and entertaining. However, he does stress that this is merely his opinion and isn't necessarily right, but he has discussed the matter several times with Icefrog.
So, GosuGamers poses the question to the rest of the community: Should Magic Stick be removed/reworked or is perfect as it is? Be sure to add your vote to the poll and state your opinion in a constructive and useful manner.
| Links |
| loda.dingblog - Loda's blog |
| ddt-ducky.blogspot - Ducky's Blog |
| Comments \ Paging |
 1, 2
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1
| Maybe it should be 100 gold more expensive on the recipe and the stick. |
| Look at HoN. They made a magic wand almost 100g more expensive and it's still an awesome item. I'd say a slight tweak could do the trick. I don't recall watching any of the top tier teams (in DotA) in action and not have almost everyone on the team rush it as first item. I could swear those used to be the grounds for tweaking an item (Bloodstone anyone?) a bit, but I could be wrong. |
| remake magic stick so you have to pay life cost: 225(15*15) or 150(10*15) hp or less and make a charge 30hp reason: saves life too many times with like 20 hp or smth. |
| its 'MAGIC' stick..its supposed to be imba -_- |
| #44 read #49 I think you didn't get the point. Balance that you are talking about works only in theory, since that balance doesn't exist when enemy goes all-in push strategy or all-in gank strategy. I never said that game should be just gank, of course it would make most of heroes useless. But at this stage of the game, gankers are not rewarded enough. It is much better start to have 1-2 Carries/Semi-Carries and 2-3 Supporters than to go for all-in gank. And if you actually read the comments, you would see that we are all for Magic Stick and Dray is against, so I don't see those "Dray Fanboys" anywhere... To make it short, I think that game isn't balanced enough about those Gank - Turtle things. These days it is almost always better to go for Turtle than for Gank strategy... |
if ur going to nerf magic stick i suggest that it would have atleast 3-second cd after gaining a charge..  |
| i always buy this item when my hero is a farmer one |
| +1 Ducky |
| Magic stick is in my opinion (exept it's few flaws) one of the best thing ice ever did to DotA. why you ask? because it creates more exiting teamfights and ganks and it an item that allows for good play and skilled moves.. what i mean by this is for example that if for example sven and cm decides to gank a sentinel hero lets say venge at the bottom outer tower.. would you rather see them running in doing stun/nova/bite/stun - dead or would you rather see the venge popping his stick getting into the woods behind the tower / kiting them while tower hitting / stunning / terroring / getting out of sight again and ending up with maybe getting one of or maybe both of them before dying or getting away.. this is only an example and not a very good one to boot but it shows the general idea of my point.. im not saying this should be the case anytime - that would be stupid but the magic stick makes these kinda comebacks where the ganked hero pulls out some good moves and outplays the gankers easier instead of the gank almost always being succefull.. it dosen't nessesarily have to 1v2 situations might as well be 2v2 or any other combo the essence of what im saying is that magic stick make more room for good moves when getting ganked or when ganking imo drays argument that magic stick is used deffensive does not really hold water - it's just as good for the ganking team to use after theyve killed someone to not die to teleporting heroes or after towerdiving etc. the removal of magic stick would make it harder to towerdive gank in the early levels or at least make it much harder to get away which would probably make the occurences of these lower.. i also don't see how removing of magic stick would mean that supporters would buy fewer wards, i dont see more wards on the map than there were in the earlier versions before magic stick - the thing that's changes is that CM/lion/random supporter can actually do something besides there 2 first spells before dying even without having farmed as much as they needed to in earlier version.. changing this would mean that the supporters had either farm more or become drasticly more useless proportionally earlier in the game than they has to now, again lowering the incentive to gank i personally think that if ice could fix the stick so it couldn't be used as ducky mentions "a radar" for incoming spells that you otherwise would have no idea was coming and maybe do something about it's overpowerness against heroes that needs to spam a spell like bb or zeus, it would be the perfect item EDIT: just read lodas blog and he is saying pretty much the same thing, so i can't be all wrong! |
| When we talk about this topic that this version is most defenensive than 6.48b we most consider the facts like in 6.48b we pay 100g and get 2tangoes but now we pay 90g and get 3tangoes and ... Magic stick for example is another problem. It's like old dagger , you could use it at any time , and it makes killing in many situations very hard , not a full magic stick - only a magic stick with 3 or 4 charges can save a hero life . So I'm greatly agree with #43 in this opinion to add a cooldown for it if you were attacked in last seconds . With this change it's also a good item for killing and not an imbalanced item for surviving. |
| the stick is a survival item therefore it makes it harder to gank thus runs counter to what DotA strives for - more kills less farm. down with the stick! |
| I see no problems with Magic Stick... Heroes like zeus and BB indirectly nerfed coz of it? But without it, zeus causes too much mayhem in the lane and BB can easily pick out stupid players who remain getting quill stacked on them. Nerfing Magic Stick means Ice should also nerf Zeus and BB. Therefore, magic stick is just fine... Why nerf an item just coz 2 heroes have a difficult time killing in lane at early game? |
| #31 u know nothing plz stfu ducky has been around the community for years. magic stick is fine. Its probably the most balancing item in the game atm it actually gives the support heroes a better chance which makes ganks more possible. |
| I agree with Ducky. You should master all stages and parts of the game to win. Farm, gank and have good team fights. |
| Give more extra exp for killing and/or less gold for creeps/neutrals and earlygame killers will be rewarded. You could also nerf the towers a bit making it easier to end a game early on and towerdive. |
| magic stick is imba, but it makes the game go into the right direction... imo it supports the more skilled players and also the supporters / gankers.... you can evade spells better (arrow) with the animation the charge does, but again it depends on your skill to use it efficient you got to stay close to enemies when they use spells (e.g. for farming, heals etc.), you dont get 10 (15) charges just when getting ganked you also have to decide when to use it... either now so you can farm a bit more before going back to base, or do you remain the charges so you are stronger next fight the wand is a nice item so u are not forced to just sell or lay down your branches, you can use it later... i like that fact the most (it´s imba as well) stick and wand are definitely too strong... i´d increase the aoe of getting charges, but nerf the hp/mana you get per charge.... or just nerf the aoe, that would support gankers a very lot |
| majikstik stays |
| It's perfect the way it is! |
| dray aka attention whore |
| if magic stick is nerfed/removed im sure atleast 10% of dota population will quit, me being under those 10% it is easily the best and most balanced item |
| NO MAGIC STICK ??? Description of MAGIC STICK----> Wearing this ensures a good game!! You all never really played one good game didn't you? |
| #11 +1 |
| I think it's a bit imbalanced , and i agree with dray when he said that gankers should be rewarded more for their ganking. |
pls dont removed it  i have good game in every game with magic stick  |
MS is fine as an item,personaly i would bump its hp/mana income to 20-25. I dont get it why dray thinks MS is "the shit" since it rarely saves your "behind" in sucky situations. Personaly, in my dota experience i barely got saved 2-3 times by using magic stick.  |
| #51 noob suggestion |
| NERF BOOTS EVERYONE GETS THEM Why can't Magic Stick be the new Boots of Speed? Or is only one "must have" -item allowed? Please answer me, someone. Drayich? |
| #70, wtf? Yeah, because 10% of the population really loves it that much. People would just adjust to the change or complain till Ice put it back. I love the item and find it incredibly useful, but I can't see how anyone would leave DotA because it's changed/removed. |
| Magic stick is a good form of leak not if it must be removed but at most balanced. Fewer loads(charges). But in if the item is very good and does not influence so much |
| no need to worry about.... they just add another major item... sometimes have to use a bit hard to kill the player who really reliable to use MS.... even so there are many ways to anticipate.... |
| Ducky actually has some good points imo. The one thing i find most impressive about the top teams is their ability to not only gank well, but maintain a high level of farm while getting hero kills. This is,(as Ducky also pointed out) very important. And even very good teams miss opportunities to farm and push towers when they have the advantage. Ganking is great, but a minimum of farm is also required so your team gets its core items. And about the Magic Stick/Wand, I think it moves the game in the right direction. More action and swanky moves from players who are good at utilizing it. If you absolutely wanted to nerf magic stick (which I don't think is necessary) then a small cd on its ability to gather charges is the only real option I think is reasonable. |
| Magic stick is perfect the way it is. |
| Against bristle it is very useful :) |
| i love this item. my grilfriend loves it too. please don't remove it! |
| Magic stick = More fun |
| why FFS?? |
| Stick = very useful in earlygame but almost shit in lategame. Remove it , and major competitive games becomes farmfest again. Dont wanna turn back to 6.64. |
| 5 sec delay for charges or ignoring spells from fog would be better i think. |
| Magic stick is a great item and should never be remove. My favourite hero Bristleback is affected greatly so it should only be reworked. |
| #59 u just slapped urself in the face dude. First u gave an example of the venge not dying and then kill sven+cm back. Later u say t's just as good for the ganking team to use after theyve killed someone to not die to teleporting heroes or after towerdiving have u thought of the situation wen the venge doesn't die, and her team teleports but due to magic stick the Sven+CM can also run away? Noone dies after 2 ganks? |
| I am on this one with Dray, don't like its impact on game, making them less gank oriented and more of a farm fest. Either rework it or remove it |
| magic stick is useful cuz it helps to gank effectively ..... in order to survive and to kill....as long as this item remains on an inventory of a hero...it can be hardly to kill...... this item was cheap but useful... |
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