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Gank for Glory

Posted by Vincent "em0_llama" Nunes 2 years ago
Papa Dray is back yet again to share his seemingly neverending wisdom. This week: the ganker isn't rewarded enough.

Drayich, along with a majority of the community, have a great deal of respect for Icefrog and his team of beta-testers, but at the end of the day, someone will always find a way to turn a relatively "balanced" version into an overpowered struggle, be it with item choice or different line ups. So the question remains; what is this pivotal item in the modern day game? According to Drayich, it is none other than the versatile Magic Stick.

Upon arriving to this conclusion, Drayich took a trip into the past. In the days 48b, the first team to farm up their blink daggers won. Well, most of the time. In the days of mouse-sports, or the Black King Bar era, Dray and his team would play with atleast two BKB heroes and no matter how much they got pummeled early on, once they had their BKBs it was over. Even now, by winning one team battle, a team can go from having a twenty kill deficit to actually winning the match; merely because they had more farming power than their opponents. Drayich now poses the question: Is this how we want competitive DotA to look?

If cooldowns were lower, would we fight more?
To support one of his suggestions on how to change the game, Dray used the following example:

-"I don't have many ideas on how to make the game more "fighty", more action packed. But something I have thinking about is having cooldowns shorter depending on what time it is in the game. What would happen if the cooldowns on ultimates, for example, changed over time. 200 seconds for Enigma's ultimate is fair later on, but early on, it makes a player very selective about when to use it. If say, for the first twenty minutes of the game, the cooldown was less - would Enigma fight more?"

Now back to Magic Stick. This is a highly useful and defensive item as it basically provides everyone with an extra 150HP during a team fight; making fragile support heroes, who have no items whatsoever, a lot more resilient. This then creates a vicious cycle of support heroes having more money for wards, therefor avoiding more fights and encouraging a farm based game.

On to the laning stages. If a Magic Stick user survives ten hostile spells, he has an automatic 150HP ready to use. This makes him that much harder to kill in a gank, making it less appealing to run around, ganking people.

An extremely controversial topic, but one cannot deny the fact that the version is more in favour towards the defensive aspect of the game. All Papa Dray is asking is that the ganker is rewarded for his early game endeavours, rather than losing to the passive farmer.


Links
Drayich.blogg.se - Original blog
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comments
1
#151 fodminah 2 years ago
stick/wand does promote some defensive aspects of the game but it also provides gankers with extra mana and hp to use -> more ganks before fountain trips, etc, like bottle.
4
#152 Mandurang 2 years ago
#145 No, here's the actual mechanic copied verbatim:
Being in a 1000 area of a dying enemy hero and not being the killer will grant you 30+5*level gold bonus, which is doubled in EM.
Assists only gives gold if Sentinel or Scourge get the kill.

Essentially, an enemy dying will give you gold much like a creep dying will give you experience - independent of the assist.
1
#153 da-gg-er 2 years ago
people just want dota to be more and more ganky and fighty, but I think it is good as it is.
1
#154 .waR- 2 years ago
stfu plz papa..im a big fan of u..

but magic stick is balanced.ty
1
#155 kriwill 2 years ago
WTF! Dont remove that item...
1
#156 Midas 2 years ago
Remove stout shield from the game. Most damage early on doesn't come from spells, but from attacks. Hence you stun someone 2/3 times and attack that person to death. Guess what stout shield does? Makes harrassing less usefull and ganging harder. Now we see lots of farm heroes easily chilling in lane, farming without a bother. The only reason magic stick is imba is because it's the only in fight heal in the game (itemwise). In 48b you would blink out and bottle up then go back and fight again. Now you can't blink anymore, but you can magic stick if you need to heal in fight. Just disable magic stick if you took damage... I'm more concerned about stout shield though. It's a purely passive item. Magic stick can be offensive 2 and adds another mechanic to the game.
#157 QuintanA 2 years ago
if you remove magic stick, you will see imba kotl +pl/bb back and then you will want it back, just think about what you are saying :)
2
#158 BluesmokE 2 years ago
Again I would just like to share.

Remove Recipe (Magic Wand). Increase Magic Stick price by 200. Magic Wand = Magic Stick + 3 Branches for a total price of 559.

Making Magic Stick more expensive holds off support heroes from buying them early but not changing the total price by much (50 gold) that it won't lose it's viability as a item to buy.
1
#159 yaoi-icecream 2 years ago
Bat is barely used in comp.games. The napalm is nearly useless on lane and on hunts because the enemy gets charges and can heal up and mana up. Do something like with vipers poison that the enemy don't get charges or gets half of a charge or something from lowmana skills. I love Batrider but I hate that napalm triggers stick as much as it does
1
#160 Prof.Keos 2 years ago
I would leave that item unupgradeable, so you can have 10charges and no bonus stats. Or maybe change so it trigers to only visable spells casted, so you cant know arrow/torrent/hook is coming your way.
1
#161 lordgiant 2 years ago
#160 -1
oh man. knowing long-range spells are casted is what makes Stick so great. that is the reward for those with great awareness.
as for the un-upgradable thing, the stick alone is an EXTREMELY EARLY GAME item and is near worthless. while the wand is more usable in mid game (and perhaps worth keeping all the way into lategame) and thus it is much more commonly purchased nowadays as compared to before v6.60
1
#162 Pro.But.Lags.K 2 years ago
Newb its 15x15 when its upgraded = 225 hp and mana :D
1
#163 Zapple 2 years ago
Btw, if some people get really annoyed by the farmerfests and tutrleparades in DotA and want to have a lot of battling, action and spellcasting - try League of Legends. seriously, its done the way dota should be more like. You can easily win a game with 0 creepkills, not a problem.
#164 Naknoemo 2 years ago
#60, Yeah lets make farming less beneficial and killing give more gold so Hard carrys sucks even more! GREAT IDEA BRAH.
1
#165 Chairraider 2 years ago
I don't think people are aware of how much bonus gold/xp exactly you already get due to the recently introduced feature. And many people don't even know that you do:) See post #152 for the info.
1
#166 sex_is_aids 2 years ago
instead of removing it just make it more expensive and more items and to give more stats to benefit its money for example its 508 gold make it 700 or 800 with more stats and useful
#167 raezEN 2 years ago
yea right! magic stick shouldnt be remove! 15hp/15mana per charge!
cooL! : ))

to all haters,STOP COMPLAINING!
maybe ur just so noob to complain! lalalal!
1
#168 cyd- 2 years ago
#162 he said magic stick 10x15=150 u thought magic wand 15x15=225..but still the topic is about the two of them..

here's my suggestion about magic stick/wand - maybe a short cooldown for gaining another charge after it gained one...and count orb skills (e.g poison attack) by 1/3 meaning 3 poison attacks = 1 charge..if it all performed in a period of time

maybe my 1st suggestion is useful..

#16 LoL at gang 4 glory < farm 4 fame

#46 +1
1
#169 pol_030209 2 years ago
don't remove it, magic stick is an item that makes bat rider balance. no one can counter that heroes gank, except with a magic stick or a wand.
1
#170 sky8airplane 2 years ago
retard
1
#171 nuha 2 years ago
i agree #156
dont remove magic stick..but remove stout shield..many late hero use that because its very useful for early game...
#172 -.-.cfg 2 years ago
Do you really wanna more action and ganks? do you? go play league of legends. lol is the game where team wins because of teamplay, ganks, tactics instead of "which an agility hero farmed more in 50 min". seriously, dota has its befenits and lol has other advantages but nowadays dota is all about killing creeps.

however that's my suggestions to make dota better:
- teleporting to wards
- no "anti-backdoor" because backdooring is a move and calling it illegal is totally bullshit, with this there could be more value tactics.
- money from assists
- money/exp awards for destroying towers.
- a little less gaining gold for creeps
- give dagger only 1 second for "already to use" 1 sec means that DOT skills/items should counter dagger but to make it fair distance should be shorter.
- make runes like a buff while using from bottle. example: if you use dd from battle all nearby heroes will get dmg buff (maybe not full based dmg but some percentage), if you use regenerate nearby allies they're getting regen too. there should be some fixes but runes would be great advantage for combats, pushing, ganking.
- more items, which give aura to your allies + creeps.
#173 paulogavanzo 2 years ago
MAGIC STICK made because of lacking of mana and hp ......
in order to get survive or kill....for a 5v5 clash it will be useful to have that item...



i was survived and saved because of that...

lol :D
1
#174 toryburch Denied comment. 1 year ago
 

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